Credit and Initials ---- reposted

To friends on this newsgroup, I am reposting this, because it appears some
people missed it.  I didn't bother revising it, but I think there's a few
of you with other opinions.  I would like to hear them, if you find no 
logic in mine, and I would also like to hear what some people who agree
have to say.  Perhaps you may be able to expand these views I have.

        %%%%%
       %%o o%%
       %( ~ )%      But Ma, you can't put
        _\-/_       it on the icebox. Joey
       //   \\      or Sussie might copy it,
       \\___/\\_    and not give me credit!
  '    `///\\\~~)))  __   /
       ////\\\\(((()|  | /
 .'   /////\\\\\\_/ |,_|  .  '
         ||||  // \\//
JRO     (_)(_) \\__\/
   ..  .   ' .  //\\ . '
          .    (_)(_)     .
   .  '     .        '.

   A while back, I posted some cartoons, and I had my initials on them, as
I do all my cartoons.  Okay, it didn't take long (hours, actually) for
everyone to start that, too.  That's fine.  I also noticed that a lot of
the art on web pages was instantly changed, in a furor of protection and
credit.  Well, I guess that's okay, too.  

   Now, I have never really thought of ASCII as property.  If you want it
to be property, try to get a copyright.  I'm used to putting intials on
cartoons.  I think it is swell if people do put their initials on their
ascii pictures.  I like being able to tell who did something; I might want
to send them a letter saying: "good work", or "hey, I'm going to use part
of that in an idea it gave me", or "yours is better than mine", or "I never
thought of that", or "that is terrible".  There's nothing wrong with
signing your work, and you ought to, to get what small credit is due, where
it is due (which is mostly here).

   But, some of this is just getting out of hand.  I got some people
writting me for logos; now, I don't really do logos, but they can write me
all they want.  But we all see a lot of postings from people requesting
logos, their name, ect., or little signatures, ect..  I recently saw this
answer to someone wanting a logo for something:                            
                                 
               ..*****|""""\.  / \   |  _ \ | |/ /     
                ..****|"""" ) / _ \  |   \/ |   <     
         KCK__  __.***|""__/ /_| |_\ |_|\_\ |_|\_\___   ____  __ __
        /_  _/ / __/ / _  /  / _  /  / / /_  _/ /   / / _  / / // /
         / /  / _/  /  \ /  /  \ /  / /   / /  / / / /  \ / /_  _/
        /_/  /___/ /_/\_\  /_/\_\  /_/   /_/  /___/ /_/\_\   /_/
   You know, that is kind of bad taste, to put the "artist's" initials into
this thing this guy (who was too lazy to make his own) requested.  Some
commercial artist drew the Taco Bell logo, and the Wal-Mart logo, and the
Saturn logo --- but you don't see his initials incorporated into the logo. 
If you make someone a logo, then you sent them a letter or posted it here
on this newsgroup, and I am sure they know who they got it from.  If they
want to run around saying "I did it, myself", well, so what?  You could
always produce the E-type correspondence to show them up to be a liar, if
you want to bother.  Or you could just shake your head at their
incompetence, and remain smug and secure in your ability(?), whilst you
laugh at their idiocy.

   Sure, a real commercial artist gets paid for making things like logos,
and that is his greatest reward, whereas I doubt anybody here gets paid for
making something like the example above.  Well, most people making ascii do
it for fun, and post it for personal satisfaction and whatever applause it
garnishes from this newsgroup, or from whoever else sees it that knows you.
 But if someone posts a complaint, or sends me a letter that somebody is
claiming their work, I am likely to believe it, and think that this other
guy is a lazy braggart.

   Logos are bad enough, if you feel you must incorporate your name into a
"logo" for someone else, but putting your initials into a signature is just
plain silly.  I don't use a sig, myself (they get old), but if I asked
someone to please make me one, I sure as hell wouldn't want their initials
as part of MY "signature".  Not only is that egotistical (something of
which I certainly am not guilty of), but it strikes me as a bit naive.

   Let's also quit making postings begging people to leave initials on, if
they "use" the picture.  Hey, if some moron is going to claim your picture,
then he's going to do it, no matter what you ask him to do.  And if someone
wants to take your initials off an ascii picture, then there's not anything
you can do about it, anyway.  Hey, initials are just in the way in a lot of
pictures --- specifically the small ones.  They're worth putting on, the
first time, but I can see where someone would want to take them off
sometimes, if they are copying them.  Post it again, or post a complaint,
or write some Email if you are upset about it.  Likely enough, the people
to whom it matters most will understand.  But, if you are so worried about
your own 'fame' that you must include pleas for credit with every picture,
then maybe you shouldn't post them.

     Please don't send me any letters saying "I always put my initials into
all my pictures".  Sure.  That is why you never did, before, and that is
not the point.  The point is: ascii is public, and free.  If you do it
here, you are doing it for fun.  People are going to copy it, and some of
them are not going to 'credit' you.  Unless you can protect it, then that
is how it is.  You are probably going to get your credit, either here or on
someone's web page.  People who post here are the top of the ascii elite
(ha! whatever that means), and most are understanding about such things. 
So, let's show a little class.

Jonathon R. Oglesbee
ogl...@fullnet.net--removetoreply

Johnathon, sorry, you're wrong! Long before you showed up on this NG,ppl
were including their initials with their work.... I don't think it is your
place to suggest otherwise. No one has imitated you in this. BTW you don't
have to "apply" for a oopyright. You must mean a trademark. All you have
to do is state that your work is copyrighted on your work (do a search
on "copyright") No one I have seen in reading this NG for years has gone
so far as to do that (which would certainly be within their rights to do).
It is a small thing to ask that initials be kept intact. LIGHTEN UP!
If you don't want to include YOUR initials then don't. I saw your diatribe
on this before and did not respond, as I thought you would come to your
senses, seeing as you haven't I felt a need to respond.

From someone retired from the advertising business....

Hi people,

   I will make a short apology, for claiming I initiated the initialization
of ascii art.  A pal of mine showed me that this is not completely factual.

   I did come to this silly newsgroup, in a time of slow posting.  Many
people were throwing around uninitialized pix.  I never did notice initials
on pix, until after I posted a few that I put initials on.  I really did
recieve some letters, saying this was a great idea.  I did notice that some
of you started to add initials to your pix on your websites.  

   It is not hard to see why I thought this was not common practice, before
I started posting.  I don't mind looking like an ass, though.  If there
were many of you who had any sense, then you should have told me about my
error, earlier.

   I still hold all my views about fussing over initials on ascii pix.  I
do apologise, however, for claiming credit for what is a dumb thing to
worry about, anyway.

   So there.....

   Jonathon R. Oglesbee
   ogl...@fullnet.net--removetoreply