Hey, LastFuture

LastFuture,

Are you interested in actually making that game happen that you
mentioned before.  This is what I wrote, but I am not sure if you ever
saw it.
---
So is anybody going to try making that?  Are you a programmer
Faux_Pseudo?  Programming those algorithms seems like quite a task.  I
don't even know how you would begin.  What are some examples of what is
allowed in ascii-art that the program AI could actually do?  Likewise
what is not?  I know that a tab is not allowed, others?  You see
ascii-art is so different to each artist.  It would be very hard to say
this is what you can and can't do because each artist likes it to look
different.  Does anybody have some set rules that would work, or that
program may never be [created].
---
Have you ever programmed before?  I think that this game may have
potential.  If you could answer a few of those questions, I may consider
attempting to program it in some of my spare time.

Kyle

>LastFuture,
>
>Are you interested in actually making that game happen that you
>mentioned before.  This is what I wrote, but I am not sure if you ever
>saw it.

I am really interested in making it happen but my programming
capabilities are lousy :) I saw what you wrote
TOGETHER WE WILL CREATE THE MOST CREATIVE GAME IN HISTORY :)

 ,-------.
/_______/|
|       ||
| ASCII ||
|  ART  ||
| GAME! ||
|       |/
'-------'
>---
>So is anybody going to try making that?  Are you a programmer
>Faux_Pseudo?  Programming those algorithms seems like quite a task.  I
>don't even know how you would begin.  What are some examples of what is
>allowed in ascii-art that the program AI could actually do?  Likewise
>what is not?  I know that a tab is not allowed, others?  You see
>ascii-art is so different to each artist.  It would be very hard to say
>this is what you can and can't do because each artist likes it to look
>different.  Does anybody have some set rules that would work, or that
>program may never be [created].
>---
>Have you ever programmed before?  I think that this game may have
>potential.  If you could answer a few of those questions, I may consider
>attempting to program it in some of my spare time.
>
>Kyle

-- 

I\             ,;8,
TI             JF
#H            _HG_  u t u r e
T#   a s t   '"*#"'
';E"           EI
               H/

Cool.  So you have a little programming experience?  What in?  I do
Visual Basic, C++ (currently taking a class), java, and at one time
qbasic and pascal.  Unfortunately, java and Visual Basic are the only
two languages I could program in for Windows, because I don't know
Visual C++.  Java would be difficult for this application though,
leaving us with Visual Basic or me learning Visual C++ (which may be
possible.)  What do you think?

Kyle

lastfuture wrote:
> 
> >LastFuture,
> >
> >Are you interested in actually making that game happen that you
> >mentioned before.  This is what I wrote, but I am not sure if you ever
> >saw it.
> 
> I am really interested in making it happen but my programming
> capabilities are lousy :) I saw what you wrote
> TOGETHER WE WILL CREATE THE MOST CREATIVE GAME IN HISTORY :)
> 
>  ,-------.
> /_______/|
> |       ||
> | ASCII ||
> |  ART  ||
> | GAME! ||
> |       |/
> '-------'
> >---
> >So is anybody going to try making that?  Are you a programmer
> >Faux_Pseudo?  Programming those algorithms seems like quite a task.  I
> >don't even know how you would begin.  What are some examples of what is
> >allowed in ascii-art that the program AI could actually do?  Likewise
> >what is not?  I know that a tab is not allowed, others?  You see
> >ascii-art is so different to each artist.  It would be very hard to say
> >this is what you can and can't do because each artist likes it to look
> >different.  Does anybody have some set rules that would work, or that
> >program may never be [created].
> >---
> >Have you ever programmed before?  I think that this game may have
> >potential.  If you could answer a few of those questions, I may consider
> >attempting to program it in some of my spare time.
> >
> >Kyle
> 
> --
> 
> I\             ,;8,
> TI             JF
> #H            _HG_  u t u r e
> T#   a s t   '"*#"'
> ';E"           EI
>                H/

On Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:14:11 GMT, Kyle Baker <k_m...@homail.com>
wrote:

>Cool.  So you have a little programming experience?  What in?  I do
>Visual Basic, C++ (currently taking a class), java, and at one time
>qbasic and pascal.  Unfortunately, java and Visual Basic are the only
>two languages I could program in for Windows, because I don't know
>Visual C++.  Java would be difficult for this application though,
>leaving us with Visual Basic or me learning Visual C++ (which may be
>possible.)  What do you think?
>
>Kyle

I can program pascal and delphi quite good (so for windows too) and i
once tried visual c++ but it was quite hard... leaving myself with
delphi... have to get back into it tho but that shouldn't be a problem
i never ever programmed any complicated algorythm tho (wich i think
this could have some in it) and rarely worked with text editing and
output in edit fields... hmmm also time is low here
but if you are patient and i get back into it there shouldn't be a
problem :)
-- 

I\             ,;8,
TI             JF
#H            _HG_  u t u r e
T#   a s t   '"*#"'
';E"           EI
               H/

I am willing to be patient.  Well, how should we do this together?  I
don't know how we can both work on it in different languages, because I
don't remember Pascal at all.  I have been in VB and C++ so long I have
forgotten the language.  All I worked in was DOS too.  Not to mention
that I don't have a Delphi compiler.  One other problem is that I won't
be around hardly at all this summer...  Not until August, well now come
the difficult questions.

Kyle

lastfuture wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:14:11 GMT, Kyle Baker <k_m...@homail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >Cool.  So you have a little programming experience?  What in?  I do
> >Visual Basic, C++ (currently taking a class), java, and at one time
> >qbasic and pascal.  Unfortunately, java and Visual Basic are the only
> >two languages I could program in for Windows, because I don't know
> >Visual C++.  Java would be difficult for this application though,
> >leaving us with Visual Basic or me learning Visual C++ (which may be
> >possible.)  What do you think?
> >
> >Kyle
> 
> I can program pascal and delphi quite good (so for windows too) and i
> once tried visual c++ but it was quite hard... leaving myself with
> delphi... have to get back into it tho but that shouldn't be a problem
> i never ever programmed any complicated algorythm tho (wich i think
> this could have some in it) and rarely worked with text editing and
> output in edit fields... hmmm also time is low here
> but if you are patient and i get back into it there shouldn't be a
> problem :)
> --
> 
> I\             ,;8,
> TI             JF
> #H            _HG_  u t u r e
> T#   a s t   '"*#"'
> ';E"           EI
>                H/

Kyle Baker: Do you expect me to reply?? Bateau: No Mr Kyle Baker, I
expect you to die!
>LastFuture,

I think we should find some good Interactive Fiction game and make
pretty pictures for it.
-- 
|    _              \      _       ^~     email:bateau at jupiter-io.net
|   <')_,/     ,  ;  \   >(')__,  . ` '  ,  ,______________._
|   (_~=/    \._`.'.  \   (_~_/         _,  '------:_______  ;==( *BANG*
|    ='-      \=~_) ;  \ ~^~~^~   ` (_~_/            | | `-\ \    *BANG*
| ICQ:11367619 -'=      \           ~^~~^~           `~'    \_;

On Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:14:11 GMT, Kyle Baker <k_m...@homail.com> enlightened us
with:

> Cool.  So you have a little programming experience?  What in?  I do
> Visual Basic, C++ (currently taking a class), java, and at one time
> qbasic and pascal.  Unfortunately, java and Visual Basic are the only
> two languages I could program in for Windows, because I don't know
> Visual C++.  Java would be difficult for this application though,
> leaving us with Visual Basic or me learning Visual C++ (which may be
> possible.)  What do you think?


If I can but in... [ObAscii: (__|__) ] 

If (as I understand it) you're doing a lot of work with manipulating text etc.
then Perl would be ideal (www.perl.org) - it's got very good text handling
routines, is available for most platforms and is fairly quick to pick up - it
uses {} for blocks of code, which may seem like a small thing but always got me
annoied in Pascal because I'd type my entire program in {} blocks and then
nothing would happen... ;-)

Perl definately worth a look - I could give the odd pointer if you get stuck
with Regular Expressions (v. powerful text search & replace tool, practically
the sole reason I recommend Perl)
-- 
 o
 |\ _[]
 L_ ===    Stuart Moore
 []\, stm

Kyle Baker wrote:
> Have you ever programmed before?  I think that this game may have
> potential.  If you could answer a few of those questions, I may consider
> attempting to program it in some of my spare time.
> Kyle
I would like to help you out in the project.  There are some questions
that need to be asked.  Like the following:

	Is this a game or an utility program?
	What is the main goal of the program or utility?
	What language do you want to program this in?
	What platform is this going to be for?

I think that Bateau is correct in saying that Perl is most likely the
best language.  Perl is something that I just picked up about 3 or 4
month ago.  Any language is easy to learn the basic if you have a good
programming foundation.

My programming experience:
Advance Programming in Think Pascal (High School Level)
Couple of months in Turbo Pascal (Self Learned)
Borland C++ (College Level)
Several Months of Perl (Self Learned)
Scripting Language (Self Learned)

Just to let you people know that I use Linux for an OS
-- 
   /"|\  /|"\     Michael D. Phillips
  (  | \/ |_/    phi...@twcny.rr.com 
   \_|    |    www.michaelphillipsnet.com
Tell me and I forget. Show me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.

"Michael D. Phillips" wrote:
> 
> Kyle Baker wrote:
> > Have you ever programmed before?  I think that this game may have
> > potential.  If you could answer a few of those questions, I may consider
> > attempting to program it in some of my spare time.
> > Kyle
> I would like to help you out in the project.  There are some questions
> that need to be asked.  Like the following:
> 
>         Is this a game or an utility program?
>         What is the main goal of the program or utility?
>         What language do you want to program this in?
>         What platform is this going to be for?

These questions would be best answered by Last Future (I don't know
where he dissapeared to though.)  It was going to be a game, but we
could combine it with a utility program maybe.  It was going to be
something with shifting an image into place.  Eliminating tabs for
example.  Perl sounds good, but I don't know it.  I am currently taking
a C class and VB class.  I find them both very simple, but I am not sure
how deep my knowledge really is.  It would be cool if we could make it
for multiple platforms.  I don't know how much help I can be, I will be
gone this summer.  It sounds like we could probably get a lot of
different people to help.  We need to get a site set up or something. 
We could do an open source.  What do you think?  Really we need Last
Future's permission for all this though.  He was the first to mention
it.

> 
> I think that Bateau is correct in saying that Perl is most likely the
> best language.  Perl is something that I just picked up about 3 or 4
> month ago.  Any language is easy to learn the basic if you have a good
> programming foundation.

Cool.  Wish I knew it.  Where would you get a compiler?

> 
> My programming experience:
> Advance Programming in Think Pascal (High School Level)
> Couple of months in Turbo Pascal (Self Learned)
> Borland C++ (College Level)
> Several Months of Perl (Self Learned)
> Scripting Language (Self Learned)

Good, now we just need to get started.  Are you good with algorithms?

Kyle

On Wed, 02 May 2001 02:17:34 GMT, Kyle <k_m...@hotmail.com> enlightened us
with:
> > 
> > 
> > I think that Bateau is correct in saying that Perl is most likely the
> > best language.  Perl is something that I just picked up about 3 or 4
> > month ago.  Any language is easy to learn the basic if you have a good
> > programming foundation.
> 
> Cool.  Wish I knew it.  Where would you get a compiler?
> 

It was me - you don't need a compiler, you need an interpreter - i.e. you can't
do the game on something that doesn't have Perl (not without increasing the size
of the program by about 3Mb anyway).

The places to look are:
www.perl.com - The main Perl page
www.activestate.com - Activestate do a version of Perl for Win32 (also free)
www.cpan.org - Comprehensive Perl Archive Network - a list of different modules
available for use - String::Approx might be useful (can make approximate matches
in strings, e.g. "Car" would match "Card" as it's 1 letter different but not
match "Hard".
ww.perl.org - Never used this site, but it seems to have some useful mailing
lists, user groups etc.
www.perldoc.com - Searchabel online version of Perl documentation, also has a
longer list of links on the side.

There's probably a lot of other places that are out there too - Perl is highly
used in Unix and for CGI scripts. If you want the game converted to a web page,
there are modules out there that'll help a lot.

As with any language, it's worth investing in a book to explain it - the most
popular one is the one written by Perl's creator (Larry Wall) - Programming Perl
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596000278/perlmongers01/107-5614349-4222147
Quite expensive, but you get what you pay for. You may be able to get it from a
library.

Stuart
-- 
 o
 |\ _[]
 L_ ===    Stuart Moore
 []\, stm

Stuart Moore wrote:
> As with any language, it's worth investing in a book to explain it - the most
> popular one is the one written by Perl's creator (Larry Wall) - Programming Perl
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596000278/perlmongers01/107-5614349-4222147
> Quite expensive, but you get what you pay for. You may be able to get it from a
> library.
Go to www.bookpool.com
search for:   0596000278
List Price: $49.95
Our Price:  $29.50
You Save    $20.45  (41% off)

I have the second edition of this book.  The book maybe too fast for
some people.  You can not go wrong with an O'Reilly book IMHO
-- 
   /"|\  /|"\     Michael D. Phillips
  (  | \/ |_/    phi...@twcny.rr.com 
   \_|    |    www.michaelphillipsnet.com
Tell me and I forget. Show me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.

On Wed, 02 May 2001 15:16:44 GMT, "Michael D. Phillips" <phi...@twcny.rr.com>
enlightened us with:

> Stuart Moore wrote:
> > As with any language, it's worth investing in a book to explain it - the most
> > popular one is the one written by Perl's creator (Larry Wall) - Programming Perl
> > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596000278/perlmongers01/107-5614349-4222147
> > Quite expensive, but you get what you pay for. You may be able to get it from a
> > library.
> Go to www.bookpool.com
> search for:   0596000278
> List Price: $49.95
> Our Price:  $29.50
> You Save    $20.45  (41% off)
> 

Nice, although I live in the UK so it's not quite so economical for me.

obAscii:

[I] Book


Stuart
-- 
 o
 |\ _[]
 L_ ===    Stuart Moore
 []\, stm

On Wed, 02 May 2001 12:54:14 GMT, Stuart Moore <stu...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> As with any language, it's worth investing in a book to explain it - the most
> popular one is the one written by Perl's creator (Larry Wall) - Programming
> Perl

For new perlers I'd recommend Learning Perl from the same series. It's much
better if you've never seen Perl before (and it's less money).

-- 
Harry Mason (tr/@./.@/ hjm200.ecs@soton@ac@uk)

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS d- s+:++(+)>+: a--- C+++@ UL+++>++++ P+++>++++ L+++>++++ E--- W+(-)
N++ o+ K++ w--@ O? M? V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP- t+ 5? X- R+>++ !tv b+++ DI+
D+>++++$ G+++ e(*)>++++ h>++ !r y
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Harry Mason wrote:
> For new perlers I'd recommend Learning Perl from the same series. It's much
> better if you've never seen Perl before (and it's less money).
I would second that
-- 
   /"|\  /|"\     Michael D. Phillips
  (  | \/ |_/    phi...@twcny.rr.com 
   \_|    |    www.michaelphillipsnet.com
Tell me and I forget. Show me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.

Thanks guys!

"Michael D. Phillips" wrote:
> 
> Harry Mason wrote:
> > For new perlers I'd recommend Learning Perl from the same series. It's much
> > better if you've never seen Perl before (and it's less money).
> I would second that
> --
>    /"|\  /|"\     Michael D. Phillips
>   (  | \/ |_/    phi...@twcny.rr.com
>    \_|    |    www.michaelphillipsnet.com
> Tell me and I forget. Show me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.

On Wed, 02 May 2001 02:17:34 GMT, Kyle <k_m...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>"Michael D. Phillips" wrote:
>> 
>> Kyle Baker wrote:
>> > Have you ever programmed before?  I think that this game may have
>> > potential.  If you could answer a few of those questions, I may consider
>> > attempting to program it in some of my spare time.
>> > Kyle
>> I would like to help you out in the project.  There are some questions
>> that need to be asked.  Like the following:
>> 
>>         Is this a game or an utility program?
----mainly a game but could also include learning mode and utility.
>>         What is the main goal of the program or utility?
----to correct incorrect ascii art, to smoothen lines, to hand-asciify
bitmaps... all that stuff..
>>         What language do you want to program this in?
----i thought to base it upon jave like it's good for editing ascii
images.
>>         What platform is this going to be for?
----if it's java or perl it's for all platforms.. otherwise we have to
do it for windows i guess.
>
>These questions would be best answered by Last Future (I don't know
>where he dissapeared to though.)  It was going to be a game, but we

Here I am I'm just terribly busy...

>could combine it with a utility program maybe.  It was going to be
>something with shifting an image into place.  Eliminating tabs for
>example.  Perl sounds good, but I don't know it.  I am currently taking
>a C class and VB class.  I find them both very simple, but I am not sure
>how deep my knowledge really is.  It would be cool if we could make it
>for multiple platforms.  I don't know how much help I can be, I will be
>gone this summer.  It sounds like we could probably get a lot of
>different people to help.  We need to get a site set up or something. 
>We could do an open source.  What do you think?  Really we need Last
>Future's permission for all this though.  He was the first to mention
>it.

I wouldn't call it permission, i just had an idea and as i am busy i
rather not program it so it's a newsgroup project and everybody is
free to throw in ideas or criticise it..
open source is perfect for this project.

>> 
>> I think that Bateau is correct in saying that Perl is most likely the
>> best language.  Perl is something that I just picked up about 3 or 4
>> month ago.  Any language is easy to learn the basic if you have a good
>> programming foundation.

i dont know if it's possible to hand-edit ascii arrays like in jave..
if it is, perl is our thing :)

>Cool.  Wish I knew it.  Where would you get a compiler?
>> 
>> My programming experience:
>> Advance Programming in Think Pascal (High School Level)
>> Couple of months in Turbo Pascal (Self Learned)
>> Borland C++ (College Level)
>> Several Months of Perl (Self Learned)
>> Scripting Language (Self Learned)
>
>Good, now we just need to get started.  Are you good with algorithms?
>
>Kyle

with the algorythms we could ask the ppl of the bitmap to ascii
contest they could know more
-- 

I\             ,;8,
TI             JF
#H            _HG_  u t u r e
T#   a s t   '"*#"'
';E"           EI
               H/

On Fri, 04 May 2001 11:48:34 +0200, lastfuture <las...@lastfuture.de>
enlightened us with:

> On Wed, 02 May 2001 02:17:34 GMT, Kyle <k_m...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >"Michael D. Phillips" wrote:
> >> I think that Bateau is correct in saying that Perl is most likely the
> >> best language.  Perl is something that I just picked up about 3 or 4
> >> month ago.  Any language is easy to learn the basic if you have a good
> >> programming foundation.
> 
> i dont know if it's possible to hand-edit ascii arrays like in jave..
> if it is, perl is our thing :)

In Perl, There's more than one way to do it *. Depends how you're doing it, but
if you were trying to replace the 5th character in a string with a * for
example, you could do:

$string =~ s/^(.{4})./$1*/;

I'm fairly sure there are better (faster) ways to do it but that'd work.

Don't expect to understand that unless you've ever seen Regular Expressions -
they're not unique to Perl, but I'd never seen them before I came across Perl.

As far as an open source ng project, I'd help for Java/Perl. As I said, Perl's
good for CGI (i.e. a webpage based game) but would require anyone else to
download Perl to run it on their comp.

* Perl's motto. Sorry, thought I'd throw it in.
-- 
 o
 |\ _[]
 L_ ===    Stuart Moore
 []\, stm

Hi,

I was very busy during the last two weeks but I read all your postings
to this subject. I really don't understand what you are talking about.
  You are discussing about what programming language to use, about what
operating system the program shall run on etc. But it seems to me that
nobody here knows what the program shall do at all.

At first it was about the fun of puzzling 'shaked' Ascii art
You have this one:
   .-. .-.
(   `   )
    `.   .�
`.�
And after moving around the lines it will result in:
 .-. .-.
(   `   )
 `.   .�
   `.�

So shall the program simply be a tool that shakes the lines of Ascii
Art, so it becomes kind of a puzzle? Then the program is a game and it
is very simple to write it (it will take me 5 minutes to integrate it
into Jave - if you are interested in it).

Then came the idea of doing it all the other way around. You have
somehow crippled Ascii Art like:
______   ______     ______    __
 /      | /  __  \   /  __  \  |  |
     |  ,----'|  |  |  | |  |  |  | |  |
      |  |     |  |  |  | |  |  |  | |  |
|  `----.|  `--'  | |  `--'  | |  `----.
             \______| \______/   \______/  |_______|
And the program tries to fix it:
  ______   ______     ______    __
 /      | /  __  \   /  __  \  |  |
|  ,----'|  |  |  | |  |  |  | |  |
|  |     |  |  |  | |  |  |  | |  |
|  `----.|  `--'  | |  `--'  | |  `----.
 \______| \______/   \______/  |_______|

So the program is a tool and it is quite hard to write it, for one has
to find out when an Ascii art image is correct or not. (For example you
have to find a way to compute the degree of possible correctness to a
given image and then only have to try to maximize this value by movin
around the lines). That could work with some images, but it will not be
possible to write such kind of tool to be able to work on images like:

.,    \                   <- Try to fix this line.
     _.=./ "\.   G        How shall a computer do that? 
   .'  ~  /`" \/(#)\.
  ~ |_ _( )     / \/
    |:  | |     |||
    '   ` '     Z L
a:f

So the first question that has to be answered is:
-+--------------------------+-
 | What is the program for? |
-+--------------------------+-

The second question is NOT the programming language or operating system.
It is:

-+--------------------+-
 | How shall it work? |
-+--------------------+-

For those questions it is very useful to have examples (like the ones
above). Then one can try to write down some kind of algorithm like:
  
  for each line in the image:
    remove empty characters on the left
  find maximum length of a line (max)
  find minimum length of a line (min)
  ...

And when that is done someone can write a first program (in any language
he likes). If it works it is no big deal to convert it to other
languages/systems.

Now who is going to answer the first question?

Markus

On Sun, 06 May 2001 13:26:43 +0200, Markus Gebhard
<ukg...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I was very busy during the last two weeks but I read all your postings
>to this subject. I really don't understand what you are talking about.
>  You are discussing about what programming language to use, about what
>operating system the program shall run on etc. But it seems to me that
>nobody here knows what the program shall do at all.

hmm i know but i didn't tell ;)

>At first it was about the fun of puzzling 'shaked' Ascii art
>You have this one:
>   .-. .-.
>(   `   )
>    `.   .�
>`.�
>And after moving around the lines it will result in:
> .-. .-.
>(   `   )
> `.   .�
>   `.�

right

>So shall the program simply be a tool that shakes the lines of Ascii
>Art, so it becomes kind of a puzzle? Then the program is a game and it
>is very simple to write it (it will take me 5 minutes to integrate it
>into Jave - if you are interested in it).

i intended it to result in a game but not that simple.. more than just
this one mode

>Then came the idea of doing it all the other way around. You have
>somehow crippled Ascii Art like:
>______   ______     ______    __
> /      | /  __  \   /  __  \  |  |
>     |  ,----'|  |  |  | |  |  |  | |  |
>      |  |     |  |  |  | |  |  |  | |  |
>|  `----.|  `--'  | |  `--'  | |  `----.
>             \______| \______/   \______/  |_______|
>And the program tries to fix it:
>  ______   ______     ______    __
> /      | /  __  \   /  __  \  |  |
>|  ,----'|  |  |  | |  |  |  | |  |
>|  |     |  |  |  | |  |  |  | |  |
>|  `----.|  `--'  | |  `--'  | |  `----.
> \______| \______/   \______/  |_______|

right but i think it should be a game rather than a tool because
A) it's easier to write
B) it will teach people step by step to get a sense for ascii art
C) it will be fun for experienced ascii-artists too

<snip tool-explanation>

>So the first question that has to be answered is:
>-+--------------------------+-
> | What is the program for? |
>-+--------------------------+-

right.. and i think it should be a game (as i titled myself
"supervisor" for the project i decided that just now) ...later on we
still can insert tool-elements.. especially in the higher game levels
we have to use a bit more complex algorythms for what i think of...
more to that topic later

but i definitely think this game can be included in jave.. of course
it has to be a own mode.. so no pasting from outside the program is
possible and so on

>The second question is NOT the programming language or operating system.
>It is:
>
>-+--------------------+-
> | How shall it work? |
>-+--------------------+-

again you are right.. now to the game modes i thought of



-=# MODES #=-

1) shake the lines as markus explained above
2) delete random spaces within the lines
3) mix up lines
4) combinations of 3&1 and 3&2
5) "spot the non-ascii characters"
6) hand-asciify a bitmap
X) recognize the micro ascii art

feel free to suggest more game modes.. remember this is a
alt.ascii-art project! i just picked up the idea :)



-=# EXPLANATIONS #=-

2-explanation:
.-..-.
(   `  )
 `..�
 `.�

has to get

 .-. .-.
(   `   )
 `.   .�
   `.�

3-explanation:
third line comes first then the second and then the sixth ...and so on
 `.   .�
   `.�
(   `   )
 .-. .-.

has to get

 .-. .-.
(   `   )
 `.   .�
   `.�

6-explanation:
it has to be a simple asciification.. like in jave the bitmap will be
projected underneath the character-layer and the user has to asciify
it... the program then checks the work of the user by comparing the
brightnes values of the pixels and the corresponding characters within
a given tolerance.

X-explanation
X is an extra menu item not for the general game cycle but for fun and
eye-training. you have to recognize the micro ascii art and have
multiple choice.. like this:

(_8(|)

what do you see?
( ) a baguette
( ) a bullet
(X) homer simpson
( ) a cigarette



-=# LEVELS #=-

levels will cycle through the single modes starting at a small size
and ending at enormous sizes :)
like this:
3 times mode 1 size 1
3 times mode 2 size 1
3 times mode 3 size 1
.
.
3 times mode 6 size 1
3 times mode 1 size 2
.
.
.
and so on

>And when that is done someone can write a first program (in any language
>he likes). If it works it is no big deal to convert it to other
>languages/systems.

hmm i won't be able to do that.. my knowledge of letting the user edit
character arrays are poor.. i never had to use it anways ;)

>Now who is going to answer the first question?

ehmm... me? :)

well i hope i inspired you
greetinx
-> lastfuture
-- 

I\             ,;8,
TI             JF
#H            _HG_  u t u r e
T#   a s t   '"*#"'
';E"           EI
               H/

i was thinking of an example where you had for example your hart

  .-. .-.
 (   `   )
  `.   .�
    `.�

now the two �'s are not ascii 
so your job would be to fix it 

  .-. .-.
 (   `   )
  `.   .'
    `.`

this part of the program is very easy to code in any language given
the example i posted in another thread using bash.

granted the example i gave would only confirm that you removed all the
non standerd ascii chars and not actualy insure you replaced them but
its a start.



--(Once apon a time, in alt.ascii-art,)--
		--(Markus Gebhard said it like only they can.)--
> Hi,
> 
> I was very busy during the last two weeks but I read all your postings
> to this subject. I really don't understand what you are talking about.
>   You are discussing about what programming language to use, about what
> operating system the program shall run on etc. But it seems to me that
> nobody here knows what the program shall do at all.
> 
> At first it was about the fun of puzzling 'shaked' Ascii art
> You have this one:
>    .-. .-.
> (   `   )
>     `.   .�
> `.�
> And after moving around the lines it will result in:
>  .-. .-.
> (   `   )
>  `.   .�
>    `.�
> 
> So shall the program simply be a tool that shakes the lines of Ascii
> Art, so it becomes kind of a puzzle? Then the program is a game and it
> is very simple to write it (it will take me 5 minutes to integrate it
> into Jave - if you are interested in it).
> 
> Then came the idea of doing it all the other way around. You have
> somehow crippled Ascii Art like:
> ______   ______     ______    __
>  /      | /  __  \   /  __  \  |  |
>      |  ,----'|  |  |  | |  |  |  | |  |
>       |  |     |  |  |  | |  |  |  | |  |
> |  `----.|  `--'  | |  `--'  | |  `----.
>              \______| \______/   \______/  |_______|
> And the program tries to fix it:
>   ______   ______     ______    __
>  /      | /  __  \   /  __  \  |  |
> |  ,----'|  |  |  | |  |  |  | |  |
> |  |     |  |  |  | |  |  |  | |  |
> |  `----.|  `--'  | |  `--'  | |  `----.
>  \______| \______/   \______/  |_______|
> 
> So the program is a tool and it is quite hard to write it, for one has
> to find out when an Ascii art image is correct or not. (For example you
> have to find a way to compute the degree of possible correctness to a
> given image and then only have to try to maximize this value by movin
> around the lines). That could work with some images, but it will not be
> possible to write such kind of tool to be able to work on images like:
> 
> .,    \                   <- Try to fix this line.
>      _.=./ "\.   G        How shall a computer do that? 
>    .'  ~  /`" \/(#)\.
>   ~ |_ _( )     / \/
>     |:  | |     |||
>     '   ` '     Z L
> a:f
> 
> So the first question that has to be answered is:
> -+--------------------------+-
>  | What is the program for? |
> -+--------------------------+-
> 
> The second question is NOT the programming language or operating system.
> It is:
> 
> -+--------------------+-
>  | How shall it work? |
> -+--------------------+-
> 
> For those questions it is very useful to have examples (like the ones
> above). Then one can try to write down some kind of algorithm like:
>   
>   for each line in the image:
>     remove empty characters on the left
>   find maximum length of a line (max)
>   find minimum length of a line (min)
>   ...
> 
> And when that is done someone can write a first program (in any language
> he likes). If it works it is no big deal to convert it to other
> languages/systems.
> 
> Now who is going to answer the first question?
> 
> Markus


-- 
--(UIN=66618055)--
--(tty1@faux.local_04:45_/home/faux)-- cat .sig
GUI's are for slackers.  ibpconf.sh 6.1 on freshmeat.net  
The easiest way to customize the command line.  By Faux_Pseudo

It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word.
        - Andrew Jackson

--(Once apon a time, in alt.ascii-art,)--
		--(lastfuture said it like only they can.)--
<snip>
> 6) hand-asciify a bitmap
<snip>

that should be easy to do.

use a bmp/gif (what ever) backround and build a insert mode for
asciifying it.  then when you are done the app will do its own ascii
version of the pic.  then overlay the players ascii version with the
computers ascii version and as long as all the dark and outlines
come within a cirtan range then you go to the next level.

 

-- 
--(UIN=66618055)--
--(tty1@faux.local_04:45_/home/faux)-- cat .sig
GUI's are for slackers.  ibpconf.sh 6.1 on freshmeat.net  
The easiest way to customize the command line.  By Faux_Pseudo

It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word.
        - Andrew Jackson

lastfuture wrote:
> Markus Gebhard wrote:
> >
> >So the first question that has to be answered is:
> >-+--------------------------+-
> > | What is the program for? |
> >-+--------------------------+-
>
> 1) shake the lines as markus explained above
> 2) delete random spaces within the lines
> 3) mix up lines
> 4) combinations of 3&1 and 3&2
> 5) "spot the non-ascii characters"
> 6) hand-asciify a bitmap
> X) recognize the micro ascii art

"game"? This sounds more like a list of things to avoid!  :-D


-- 
    (,         http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/
    /|__--__                       .                        __--__
    |\ '__                        /|\                        _{ _ 
    `.' / `.,_ _________           |           _________ _,.' (/ `.
    /  ||``._.'             ASCII ART CHAT!             `---'|:||,/
  .'   /|                                                   /|:| \
.'    /\ \         __   __                _                 `/|'\'
 ` `,/ /`,\        \ \ / /__ _ _ ___ _ _ (_)__ __ _         /,'\ \
   .'.'  /|         \ V / -_) '_/ _ \ ' \| / _/ _` |        |\  `.`.
 ,' /   / |          \_/\___|_| \___/_||_|_\__\__,_|        | \   \ `,
- `- -- `-'- -ejm-------------------------------------VK-- -`-' -- -' -

On Sun, 27 May 2001 00:28:41 +0200, Veronica Karlsson
<asc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>lastfuture wrote:
>> Markus Gebhard wrote:
>> >
>> >So the first question that has to be answered is:
>> >-+--------------------------+-
>> > | What is the program for? |
>> >-+--------------------------+-
>>
>> 1) shake the lines as markus explained above
>> 2) delete random spaces within the lines
>> 3) mix up lines
>> 4) combinations of 3&1 and 3&2
>> 5) "spot the non-ascii characters"
>> 6) hand-asciify a bitmap
>> X) recognize the micro ascii art
>
>"game"? This sounds more like a list of things to avoid!  :-D

huh? :)
-- 
 \/    ,-------------------------.
(oO)   | we will infect you too! |
 vv __/`-------------------------'
 JL