ASCII fades

I'm completely new to the ASCII world but i've noticed that some
programs (like the dos prompt) support ASCII caracters into the 200's.
For example: Go to dos and hold ALT and type in 176 on the key pad and
release alt. Why is it that no ASCII chart shows these symbols? Does
anyone know of a chart with these symbols?

Thanks in advance,
Dan Martin

DOS ASCII (as well as Windows's basic Western/ISO-Latin-1) has 255
characters.  (Or so.)

We don't use the extended characters (i.e., beyond 128) or the control
characters (i.e. 7 (bell) 127 (backspace i think) etc..)

There is a windows program called "Character Map" that comes in every
version of Windows I've ever seen, and it will list out the first 255
characters in every font installed on your system.

As for a DOS listing, er, well...

Try running this through QBASIC:

FOR U=0 to 255
PRINT CHR$(U)
PRINT
NEXT

That oughta show you the characters in your DOS font.  (Totally untested
code.)


>>BKNambo
--
http://come.to/brocks.place | World Domination Through Trivia!
What games are on? Check out The Schedule!
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and Br_Lee_Luuuuuurve


Dan Martin wrote in message <34D...@netcom.ca>...
>I'm completely new to the ASCII world but i've noticed that some
>programs (like the dos prompt) support ASCII caracters into the 200's.
>For example: Go to dos and hold ALT and type in 176 on the key pad and
>release alt. Why is it that no ASCII chart shows these symbols? Does
>anyone know of a chart with these symbols?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Dan Martin
>

thanks for the assistance!  I found that Qbasic help listed all the extended
ASCII characters.

Dan Martin escreveu na mensagem <34D...@netcom.ca>...
|I'm completely new to the ASCII world but i've noticed that some
|programs (like the dos prompt) support ASCII caracters into the 200's.
|For example: Go to dos and hold ALT and type in 176 on the key pad and
|release alt. Why is it that no ASCII chart shows these symbols?

Those aren't ASCII characters, but ANSI...! If you want a chart with
those symbols, just write down the numbers and the resulting symbols in
from of each number! :-)
--
Praseodymium 59
praseodymium59 @ geocities.com  |  ICQ UIN [4191789]
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5992/Praseodymium.html
'Rest of our lives might have already passed' - Bush

Wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG.  
It's not your fault, you probably read the FAQ.  Which is WRONG!!!  (And YES I
have emailed the people who propogate and maintain the FAQ several times to fix
this.)

There is ASCII and there is Extended ASCII, or otherwise known as MS-DOS
Extended ASCII or "high ASCII".  This is just an extension to the basic ASCII
character set.  ASCII art which consists only of the lower character set is
known to some text-based artists as "low ASCII" and is sometimes referred to as
"oldschool".  Extended ASCII has NOTHING to do with the American National
Standards Institute, or ANSI.SYS, or "ANSI Color", or VT-100!

So remember kids, it's called Extended ASCII!  If it's not colored, it's NOT
ANSI!

For more information, PLEASE refer to
http://artpacks.acid.org/www/html/intro.html

Regards,

RaD Man


Apologies for high exclamation point count ;)


On Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:16:57 -0000, "Praseodymium 59"
<pra...@geocities.com> wrote:

%
%Dan Martin escreveu na mensagem <34D...@netcom.ca>...
%|I'm completely new to the ASCII world but i've noticed that some
%|programs (like the dos prompt) support ASCII caracters into the 200's.
%|For example: Go to dos and hold ALT and type in 176 on the key pad and
%|release alt. Why is it that no ASCII chart shows these symbols?
%
%Those aren't ASCII characters, but ANSI...! If you want a chart with
%those symbols, just write down the numbers and the resulting symbols in
%from of each number! :-)
%--
%Praseodymium 59
%praseodymium59 @ geocities.com  |  ICQ UIN [4191789]
%http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5992/Praseodymium.html
%'Rest of our lives might have already passed' - Bush
%
%

-- enq...@npvq.bet

 RaD Man % ACiD Productions Founder % Artpacks Archive Founder

  Words to live by: " It's better to be controversial for the
  right reasons, than to be popular for the wrong reasons. "

RaD Man [ACiD Founder] (rad...@nospam.acid.org) wrote:
: Wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG.  

Lest we get any more half truths..

: There is ASCII and there is Extended ASCII, or otherwise known as MS-DOS
: Extended ASCII or "high ASCII".  This is just an extension to the basic ASCII
: character set.  ASCII art which consists only of the lower character set is

Indeed, but beware of playing tricks with adjectives. Extended ASCII is not
really ASCII, just as, say, a broken window is not really a window, but just
pieces of glass. (a contrived example, I know, but you get the point)

: "oldschool".  Extended ASCII has NOTHING to do with the American National
: Standards Institute, or ANSI.SYS, or "ANSI Color", or VT-100!

Well, it might have something to do with ANSI (the institute). The extended
character set used in Windows and most other systems is called ISO-8559-1 or
ISO Latin 1, where ISO stands for International Standards Organizations,
8559 is the standard, and 1 is the particular set of characters (there are
other variations such as ISO-8859-2)

I don't know if there is an equivalent ANSI standard, but there might well
be, in which case calling them ANSI characters would be, if not too logical,
then at least justifiable.

: So remember kids, it's called Extended ASCII!  If it's not colored, it's NOT
: ANSI!

And remember: *ANSI does not mean color!* People often use the name as an
abbreviation for the ANSI standard display control codes (no, I haven't the
faintest idea what the standard number might be) but IMHO this is one of
those silly habits like calling a microwave oven a micro.

And yes, I think there is an equivalent ISO standard.

To get the point straight, here's a list of character sets:

Name:                    Bits: Notes:
ASCII                    7     American Standard Code for Information
                               Interchange
ISO-8859-1 / ISO Latin 1 8     (first 128 characters same as in ASCII)
MS-DOS extended ASCII    8     (first 128 characters same as in ASCII)
Unicode                  16    (first 256 characters same as in ISO-8859-1)

Now how many bits did EBCDIC have, I wonder..

--  __,,,------._
 ,-/|            `-.  Ilmari Karonen (ilt...@sci.fi) ^ All opinions expressed
/,  '\,     `.  ,|"-;;.__ http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ | in this message are my
/ ' 4(_,-_,-"_,/.'   `'--' ,------------------------' own. If you want me to
"`-(_,-"" `-' (,' itz      | make some for you too, you should pay for them!

Since you asked:
 
EBCDIC                    8     Extended Binary Coded Decimal
Interchange Code

(I have to do IBM/370 Assembly now, which uses EBCDIC. grrrr!)

-- 
Kevin Kreamer
#include <sig.h>
  Segmentation Fault 
  Core dumped
[root@localhost ~]#


Ilmari Karonen wrote:
> 
> RaD Man [ACiD Founder] (rad...@nospam.acid.org) wrote:
> : Wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG.
> 
> Lest we get any more half truths..
> 
> : There is ASCII and there is Extended ASCII, or otherwise known as MS-DOS
> : Extended ASCII or "high ASCII".  This is just an extension to the basic ASCII
> : character set.  ASCII art which consists only of the lower character set is
> 
> Indeed, but beware of playing tricks with adjectives. Extended ASCII is not
> really ASCII, just as, say, a broken window is not really a window, but just
> pieces of glass. (a contrived example, I know, but you get the point)
> 
> : "oldschool".  Extended ASCII has NOTHING to do with the American National
> : Standards Institute, or ANSI.SYS, or "ANSI Color", or VT-100!
> 
> Well, it might have something to do with ANSI (the institute). The extended
> character set used in Windows and most other systems is called ISO-8559-1 or
> ISO Latin 1, where ISO stands for International Standards Organizations,
> 8559 is the standard, and 1 is the particular set of characters (there are
> other variations such as ISO-8859-2)
> 
> I don't know if there is an equivalent ANSI standard, but there might well
> be, in which case calling them ANSI characters would be, if not too logical,
> then at least justifiable.
> 
> : So remember kids, it's called Extended ASCII!  If it's not colored, it's NOT
> : ANSI!
> 
> And remember: *ANSI does not mean color!* People often use the name as an
> abbreviation for the ANSI standard display control codes (no, I haven't the
> faintest idea what the standard number might be) but IMHO this is one of
> those silly habits like calling a microwave oven a micro.
> 
> And yes, I think there is an equivalent ISO standard.
> 
> To get the point straight, here's a list of character sets:
> 
> Name:                    Bits: Notes:
> ASCII                    7     American Standard Code for Information
>                                Interchange
> ISO-8859-1 / ISO Latin 1 8     (first 128 characters same as in ASCII)
> MS-DOS extended ASCII    8     (first 128 characters same as in ASCII)
> Unicode                  16    (first 256 characters same as in ISO-8859-1)
> 
> Now how many bits did EBCDIC have, I wonder..

On 7 Feb 1998 10:47:58 GMT, ilt...@sci.fi (Ilmari Karonen) wrote:

%RaD Man [ACiD Founder] (rad...@nospam.acid.org) wrote:
%: Wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG.  
%
%Lest we get any more half truths..

	I love you, man.  Even if you and I are the only two people on this
newsgroup who have the faintest idea what we're talking about.  Allow me to
clarify...

%: There is ASCII and there is Extended ASCII, or otherwise known as MS-DOS
%: Extended ASCII or "high ASCII".  This is just an extension to the basic ASCII
%: character set.  ASCII art which consists only of the lower character set is
%
%Indeed, but beware of playing tricks with adjectives. Extended ASCII is not
%really ASCII, just as, say, a broken window is not really a window, but just
%pieces of glass. (a contrived example, I know, but you get the point)

	True.  But blame Microsoft's DOS manual.  I try my best.

%: "oldschool".  Extended ASCII has NOTHING to do with the American National
%: Standards Institute, or ANSI.SYS, or "ANSI Color", or VT-100!
%
%Well, it might have something to do with ANSI (the institute). The extended
%character set used in Windows and most other systems is called ISO-8559-1 or
%ISO Latin 1, where ISO stands for International Standards Organizations,
%8559 is the standard, and 1 is the particular set of characters (there are
%other variations such as ISO-8859-2)
%
%I don't know if there is an equivalent ANSI standard, but there might well
%be, in which case calling them ANSI characters would be, if not too logical,
%then at least justifiable.

	It might.  Maybe.  While it's a possibility, as American National
Standards Institute is the sole U.S. representative for the International
Organization for Standardization, I have not been able to locate any
documentation to back that up.  And frankly, unless someone can provide such
evidence (such as the ANSI standard number) to this group, I feel the entire
paragraph in question should be removed from the FAQ, or modified to convey a
more accurate description of this 8-bit character set.  

	Furthermore, as far as the general computer-using public is concerned,
when someone uses the word 'ANSI' in the context of computer text art, they are
always referring to colored text or animated text, and never an extended
character set.  

	Allow me to quote the FAQ:
		"There is another character set known as ANSI
     (after the American National Standards Institute)"

	I'm sorry, I dont know anyone who knows ANSI as "another character set".
Do you?  I do however know people who know ANSI as a organization that
facilitates development of standards, and those who know ANSI as a standard form
of communications on a VT.  That's all, nothing else.  


%: So remember kids, it's called Extended ASCII!  If it's not colored, it's NOT
%: ANSI!
%
%And remember: *ANSI does not mean color!* People often use the name as an
%abbreviation for the ANSI standard display control codes (no, I haven't the
%faintest idea what the standard number might be) but IMHO this is one of
%those silly habits like calling a microwave oven a micro.

	Or like calling a bandage a BAND-AID?  oops...

	As stated on my Intro page, the ANSI standard that most PC users are
referring to when they say "ANSI" is ANSI X3.64-1979, ADCCP (ANSI's (A)dvanced
(D)ata (C)ommunication (C)ontrol (P)rocedure, which has been withdrawn.

%And yes, I think there is an equivalent ISO standard.
%
%To get the point straight, here's a list of character sets:
%
%Name:                    Bits: Notes:
%ASCII                    7     American Standard Code for Information
%                               Interchange
%ISO-8859-1 / ISO Latin 1 8     (first 128 characters same as in ASCII)
%MS-DOS extended ASCII    8     (first 128 characters same as in ASCII)
%Unicode                  16    (first 256 characters same as in ISO-8859-1)
%
%Now how many bits did EBCDIC have, I wonder..

	Now if we can only get this FAQing thing corrected...
-- enq...@npvq.bet

 RaD Man % ACiD Productions Founder % Artpacks Archive Founder

  Words to live by: " It's better to be controversial for the
  right reasons, than to be popular for the wrong reasons. "

RaD Man [ACiD Founder] (rad...@nospam.acid.org) wrote:
: evidence (such as the ANSI standard number) to this group, I feel the entire
: paragraph in question should be removed from the FAQ, or modified to convey a
: more accurate description of this 8-bit character set.  

I second the motion.

--  __,,,------._
 ,-/|            `-.  Ilmari Karonen (ilt...@sci.fi) ^ All opinions expressed
/,  '\,     `.  ,|"-;;.__ http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ | in this message are my
/ ' 4(_,-_,-"_,/.'   `'--' ,------------------------' own. If you want me to
"`-(_,-"" `-' (,' itz      | make some for you too, you should pay for them!

Ilmari Karonen wrote:
> 
> RaD Man [ACiD Founder] (rad...@nospam.acid.org) wrote:
> : evidence (such as the ANSI standard number) to this group, I feel the entire
> : paragraph in question should be removed from the FAQ, or modified to convey a
> : more accurate description of this 8-bit character set.
> 
> I second the motion.
> 
If,RaD Man will make a replacement to the ansi part of the faq i will
replace the current part with his.
It must follow these guidelines:
1.when the old part is sniped and the newpart is put in the
  faq must not be any larger,hopefully smaller.
2.The point of it should be to disscourage readers from
  posting anything that contains any charecters from outside
  the 32-127 range.
3.tell them why in respect to point 2

4.not go in to a lot of irrelevant stuff as this is a faq for ascii-art
  not ansi-art so keep it simple.(not that you wouldnt,no dis here)

5.Include the chart allready in it, or a simular one of the "allowed"
  asciizzzz

6.Be subject to re-editing per ME.

7.RaD Man will not get upset if i ridicule it and gripe about 
  things in it and ask him to rewrite parts of it.

Just send me something in the ole email and i will review it.I do see your
point.


-- 
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  Gory javascript animations for your enjoyment

>From: Krogg <kro...@inspace.net>
>Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 03:22 EST
>Message-id: <34E...@inspace.net>

>Just send me something in the ole email and i will review it.I do see your
>point

ditto here-- your complaints were not falling on deaf ears--
this is a major redo of a portion of the FAQ -- I thought that
it might wait until the original writer of the FAQ returned--
that'll be next month, I believe.

-joan
--
            .-.
           ((`-)
            \\
             \\               joan stark
      .="""=._))          spu...@juno.com
     /  .,   .'
    /__(,_.-' 
   `    /|                 ASCII ART GALLERY
       /_|__      http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7373/
         | `))
         |
   jgs  -"==

On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 03:22:31 -0500, Krogg <kro...@inspace.net> wrote:

>Ilmari Karonen wrote:
>> 
>> RaD Man [ACiD Founder] (rad...@nospam.acid.org) wrote:
>> : evidence (such as the ANSI standard number) to this group, I feel the 
>> : entire paragraph in question should be removed from the FAQ, or modified
>> : to convey a more accurate description of this 8-bit character set.
>> 
>> I second the motion.
>
>If,RaD Man will make a replacement to the ansi part of the faq i will
>replace the current part with his.

	I would be more than honored to re-write that portion of the FAQ.  After
it has been done I will email it to you, Kross, and cc: Ilmari to ensure it's
accuracy.  I would hate to be a guilty party to providing half-truths my self ;)

>It must follow these guidelines:
>1.when the old part is sniped and the newpart is put in the
>  faq must not be any larger,hopefully smaller.
>2.The point of it should be to disscourage readers from
>  posting anything that contains any charecters from outside
>  the 32-127 range.
>3.tell them why in respect to point 2
>
>4.not go in to a lot of irrelevant stuff as this is a faq for ascii-art
>  not ansi-art so keep it simple.(not that you wouldnt,no dis here)
>
>5.Include the chart allready in it, or a simular one of the "allowed"
>  asciizzzz
>
>6.Be subject to re-editing per ME.
>
>7.RaD Man will not get upset if i ridicule it and gripe about 
>  things in it and ask him to rewrite parts of it.

	To keep things simple, I won't even use the word ANSI in the revision.

	In fact, I don't see any of these guidelines being a problem.  I fully
understand your intentions for the emphasis to be placed on what is and what is
not true, real ASCII.  The replacement should be as small and crystal clear.

	Since you've taken it upon yourself to moderate future amendments to the
FAQ, I would like to ask everyone a question who is reading and participating in
this NG the following question: ("ANSI" graphics aside >8-) )

	Is anyone interested in including details on extended "PC-ASCII" and
"Amiga-ASCII" art in the FAQ?  Is this something worth exploring for anyone?

	There are many artists out there who are drawing text-based artwork
outside of the original ASCII character set.  Some are unaware that the medium
they are using is not pure ASCII, but a hybrid made specifically for their
operating system.  

	Maybe I'll digress for now...  Keep checking your mailbox ;-)


>Just send me something in the ole email and i will review it.I do see your
>point.

-- enq...@npvq.bet

 RaD Man % ACiD Productions Founder % Artpacks Archive Founder

  Words to live by: " It's better to be controversial for the
  right reasons, than to be popular for the wrong reasons. "

RaD Man [ACiD Founder] wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 03:22:31 -0500, Krogg <kro...@inspace.net> wrote:
> 
> >Ilmari Karonen wrote:
> >>
> >> RaD Man [ACiD Founder] (rad...@nospam.acid.org) wrote:

> >
> >6.Be subject to re-editing per ME.
> >
> >7.RaD Man will not get upset if i ridicule it and gripe about
> >  things in it and ask him to rewrite parts of it.
> 
>         To keep things simple, I won't even use the word ANSI in the revision.
> 
>         In fact, I don't see any of these guidelines being a problem.  I fully
> understand your intentions for the emphasis to be placed on what is and what is
> not true, real ASCII.  The replacement should be as small and crystal clear.
> 
>         Since you've taken it upon yourself to moderate future amendments to the
> FAQ, I would like to ask everyone a question who is reading and participating in
> this NG the following question: ("ANSI" graphics aside >8-) )
>
 

I just want to insert here,that:I am only moderating my copy of the faq to keep it
the same size,basicaly.It is just 10 or 15 bytes short of the limit notepad
has for file sizes.It might not be a bad idea to include a url for a mini faq
for Amiga and Pc extended ascii and even the colored ansi stuff.If there
can be a good way of wording it in.Are there any other newsgroups that
explore these?Probly not,as some of the control codes crash newsreaders,i 
guess.
Also it might shed some light for windows,mac,amiga,ect users as to why
all that stuff in file_id.diz and *.nfo files looks like crap to
them and it is supposed to be nice little boxes.You also could go into
terminal emulation and ect,but lets keep the ascii-art faq on topic and
maybe some urls to additional stuff that sort of vears of the course
of frequently asked questions.

I know that the main reason you are buged is that the faq calls
127-255 ansi and ya are detail oriented.

anyway,ill exit as i guess this thread is relevant but i want to just
get back ta looking at all them cool typewriter pictures.Ill keep looking
in my mail.

>         Is anyone interested in including details on extended "PC-ASCII" and
> "Amiga-ASCII" art in the FAQ?  Is this something worth exploring for anyone?
> 
>         There are many artists out there who are drawing text-based artwork
> outside of the original ASCII character set.  Some are unaware that the medium
> they are using is not pure ASCII, but a hybrid made specifically for their
> operating system.
> 
>         Maybe I'll digress for now...  Keep checking your mailbox ;-)
> 
> >Just send me something in the ole email and i will review it.I do see your
> >point.
> 
> -- enq...@npvq.bet
> 
>  RaD Man % ACiD Productions Founder % Artpacks Archive Founder
> 
>   Words to live by: " It's better to be controversial for the
>   right reasons, than to be popular for the wrong reasons. "

-- 
                      THE                  
                  <\PRINCE />           
        /\         \\     //         /\   
       /  \         \\   //         /  \        
      / /\/        /""""""\         \/\ \      
     / /  SEE HIS (  /   \ \  SEE HIS  \ \   
     \ \   FACE    \/<> <>\/   SMILE   / /       
      \ \          /   W   \          / /    
       \ \        /\_|||||_/\        / /      
       /  \      //   |||   \\      /  \       
      / /\ \    //     '     \\    / /\ \        
     / / / /   </ TIME TO DIE \>   \ \ \ \     
     \ \/  \_______________________/  \/ /
      \_________________________________/
         kro...@inspace.net
          Remove no.to.spam to reply
 http://www.inspace.net/~carcher/krogg/aani.htm
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Spunk1111 wrote:
> 
> >From: Krogg <kro...@inspace.net>
> >Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 03:22 EST
> >Message-id: <34E...@inspace.net>
> 
> >Just send me something in the ole email and i will review it.I do see your
> >point
> 
> ditto here-- your complaints were not falling on deaf ears--
> this is a major redo of a portion of the FAQ -- I thought that
> it might wait until the original writer of the FAQ returned--
> that'll be next month, I believe.
> 
> -joan
  But,Joan,RaD Man is going to blow a gasket if it isnt changed.Besides
will the original author of the faq even want to relive all the nightmares
he must have had when he first wrote it.He probly is back and by now has
changed his name and is getting a good laugh at us.Besides,every time
i here he is comming back,its allways next month.It was next month 2 months 
ago.
  I know,i know its his file.If he gets mad then he can take charge of it
again but on the other hand he might be glad not to have the worry.But
for now we have to assume that he willnever come back and do what is needed
till he does.

Any how,Lets see what RaD Man comes up with.
It might be good.



-- 
                      THE                  
                  <\PRINCE />           
        /\         \\     //         /\   
       /  \         \\   //         /  \        
      / /\/        /""""""\         \/\ \      
     / /  SEE HIS (  /   \ \  SEE HIS  \ \   
     \ \   FACE    \/<> <>\/   SMILE   / /       
      \ \          /   W   \          / /    
       \ \        /\_|||||_/\        / /      
       /  \      //   |||   \\      /  \       
      / /\ \    //     '     \\    / /\ \        
     / / / /   </ TIME TO DIE \>   \ \ \ \     
     \ \/  \_______________________/  \/ /
      \_________________________________/
         kro...@inspace.net
          Remove no.to.spam to reply
 http://www.inspace.net/~carcher/krogg/aani.htm
  Gory javascript animations for your enjoyment

>From: Krogg <kro...@inspace.net>
>Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 21:01 EST
>Message-id: <34E...@inspace.net>
>for now we have to assume that he willnever come back and do what is needed
>till he does.
>
>Any how,Lets see what RaD Man comes up with.
>It might be good.

sure, I'm game for revamping the part about ANSI --
I asked RadMan to come up with something before
and he just passed along a URL --  If it's so wrong,
I don't understand why noone said a peep when it
was posted for revisions and comments....
  BEfore it is added to the FAQ-- let's keep it on
the board so that people can comment on it... one
copy  ought to be acknowledged so that it can
be added to everyone's faq-- I can just see all of
us having different versions....
-joan
-- 
           .-~~-. .--.
          /      /   "\  /|        joan stark
         /    \ |  \   \//     spu...@juno.com
        |/\    | \_/-'..'
        A |   /  ||            ASCII ART GALLERY:
 jgs      |__||__||    http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7373/

>From: rad...@nospam.acid.org (RaD Man [ACiD Founder])
>Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 18:37 EST
>Message-id: <34e22e58.428558856@205.158.0.30>

>	I would be more than honored to re-write that portion of the FAQ. 
After
>it has been done I will email it to you, Kross, and cc: Ilmari to ensure it's
>accuracy.  I would hate to be a guilty party to providing half-truths my self
>;)

No, please post it... this way, we can get additional input...
Not that I don't believe you-- but this FAQ has been a
group effort --  many minds can create some great things...

-joan
 --
                  |~~
               _.:^:._
       |~  _.-'.'.'.'.'-._   |~               joan stark
      <|><|><|><|>o<|><|><|><|>           spu...@juno.com
       |__|__|__|___|__|__|__|
       : -\|_     |    -\|_  :
       : <<.<<` -\|_   <<.<<`:            ASCII ART GALLERY:
       :___|____<<,<<`___|___:    http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7373/
 jgs___{=====================}___________________________________________
 """"""^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

>From: rad...@nospam.acid.org (RaD Man [ACiD Founder])
>Message-id: <34e22e58.428558856@205.158.0.30>
>	There are many artists out there who are drawing text-based artwork
>outside of the original ASCII character set.  Some are unaware that the
>medium
>they are using is not pure ASCII, but a hybrid made specifically for their
>operating system.  

This sounds like all the people who are making "macros"
for AOL (America Online)....  To be honest, many of the
AOLer don't know about the difference between ASCII
art and macros (and for the most part, really don't care)--
the macro scene on AOL is quite different than what we
see on the net...  so many of the net ASCIIs have been
pirated on AOL--  You wouldn't believe the macros that
once had our sigs on them-- they now 'belong' to other
people.  Our sigs have been stripped and AOLers have
signed their names to them-- I don't know if they believe
noone will find out --  it is an immature group.  Even when
confronted with the original ASCII picture, there are
people who insist that the net copied from them--  haha
as if people in Holland or Australia  have access to AOL.
  My advice regarding the FAQ and gearing it to people
creating text-based artwork outside of the ASCII character
set, is to forget it.  It's not worth it... our FAQ has to do
with ASCII- art.... not hybrids.
-- my opinion -
-joan
-- 
         _.-----._
  *    .'   .-'``|'.           *
      /    /    -*- \              joan stark         |
     ;   <{      |   ;   |     spu...@juno.com    -*-
     |    _\ |       |  -*-                           |
     ;   _\ -*- |    ;   |
      \   \  | -*-  /           ASCII ART GALLERY:        *
  jgs  '._ '.__ |_.'   http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7373/
          '-----'

In article <199...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
spu...@aol.com (Spunk1111) wrote:
> 
> >From: rad...@nospam.acid.org (RaD Man [ACiD Founder])
> >Message-id: <34e22e58.428558856@205.158.0.30>
> >       There are many artists out there who are drawing text-based artwork
> >outside of the original ASCII character set.  Some are unaware that the
> >medium
> >they are using is not pure ASCII, but a hybrid made specifically for their
> >operating system.
[snip]
>   My advice regarding the FAQ and gearing it to people
> creating text-based artwork outside of the ASCII character
> set, is to forget it.  It's not worth it... our FAQ has to do
> with ASCII- art.... not hybrids.
> -- my opinion -

> -joan stark
> spu...@juno.com    -*-
> ASCII ART GALLERY:        *
> http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7373/

Mine too. In fact any explanations about anything that isn't pure ASCII
don't belong there at all. How about just mention the name and link to a
page that does explain it? And if there is no page to link to then just
mention it and have something like "but that ISN'T ascii-art so won't be
dealt with here". The FAQ is already quite large. Any chance to shorten
it should be welcomed.


NOTE: If you hit the reply button, add an "e" to the "freent";
its absense is to stop the torment of automatic mailers.
--
llizard aka ejm                                      ,^
cq5...@freenet.toronto.on.ca          ===%^^^^^^^^^^^^
www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9334/       "    "

In article <34e22e58.428558856@205.158.0.30>, rad...@nospam.acid.org
(RaD Man [ACiD Founder]) wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 03:22:31 -0500, Krogg <kro...@inspace.net> wrote:
> 
> >Ilmari Karonen wrote:
> >>
> >> RaD Man [ACiD Founder] (rad...@nospam.acid.org) wrote:
> >> : evidence (such as the ANSI standard number) to this group, I feel the
> >> : entire paragraph in question should be removed from the FAQ, or modified
> >> : to convey a more accurate description of this 8-bit character set.
> >>
> >> I second the motion.
> >
> >If,RaD Man will make a replacement to the ansi part of the faq i will
> >replace the current part with his.
> 
>         I would be more than honored to re-write that portion of the FAQ.

My vote is to remove the entire paragraph and put a link to a page that
has the rewritten portion. Make the FAQ as small as possible to
encourage people to actually read it.


NOTE: If you hit the reply button, add an "e" to the "freent";
its absense is to stop the torment of automatic mailers.
--
   ___                    www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9334/
 _/   |    ,^%---                  cq5...@freenet.toronto.on.ca
|_____|  __<_ \ Yes,                           llizard aka ejm
  --- ==   >/     it's true.
[_____]  __>,^       I am a purist.
 |   |  //| |    (in spite of all those Javascript animations)

>From: llizard <cq5...@freent.toronto.on.ca>
>Date: Fri, Feb 13, 1998 06:43 EST
>Message-id: <34E...@freent.toronto.on.ca>

>My vote is to remove the entire paragraph and put a link to a page that
>has the rewritten portion.

Well, I have to eat my own words, instead of waiting for
everyone,  I changed the faq at
my site-  I substituted the word "extended ASCII" for
"ANSI" -- there is no mention of ANSI at all in the
paragraph.
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7373/faq.htm
Go ahead, shove those words into my moutht!
yumm yumm....  :)
-joan
--
        .{{}}}}}}.
       {{{{{}}}}}}}.        joan stark   <spu...@juno.com>
      {{{{  }}}}}}}}}     
     }}}}} _   _ {{{{{             ASCII Art Gallery:
     }}}}  6   6  {{{{    <http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7373/>
    {{{{{    ^    }}}}}
   {{{{{{\  -=-  /}}}}}}      God put me here to accomplish
   {{{{{{{;.___.;}}}}}}}        certain things-- right now
    {{{{{{{)   (}}}}}}}'    I'm so far behind, I'll never die!
     `""'"':   :'"'"'`   
   jgs      `@`    

.----- Spunk1111 <spu...@aol.com> wrote...
| 
| Well, I have to eat my own words, instead of waiting for
| everyone,  I changed the faq at
| my site-  I substituted the word "extended ASCII" for
| "ANSI" -- there is no mention of ANSI at all in the
| paragraph.
'----------------------

I guess I must be psycic or something.... I did exactly that two days ago
to the version of the faq on 'Bungle and Mart`s Weird Wonderful World'
tho' it won`t be uploaded 'till the weekend so you may not be able to see
it yet!

Also, Using snippets of the FAQ and some of my own material I made a mini
intro to ascii on my new site of just *my* art... 
http://voices.vossnet.co.uk/a/atkins/ascii.htm and click on the 'What is
ASCII' image - sorry I can`t remember the exact link right now but it`s
probably wotascii.htm or something....

Incidentally, I did give credit where credit was due on the FAQ and a link
to the entire FAQ at 'the other' site....

OOhh god - I make less and less sense every day...

  |||||
 |||( @|
 |||   >        ______
  |   ~|       |   \  \
   \__/        |    |  |
   | |         |    |  |
  / " \ __     |____|__|
  |\\ |/.-' _.|______|__| mga
  | \\//     """""""""""""


-- 
   _____                 __  .__            _________
  /     \ _____ ________/  |_|__| ____   .-'AKA __   '-.
 /  \ /  \\__  \\_  __ \   __\  |/    \  | |\/|/__ /\  |
/    Y    \/ __ \|  | \/|  | |  |   |  \ | |  |\_//--\ |
\____|__  (____  /__|  _|__|.|__|___|  / '-------------'
        \/  _  \//  |_|  | _|__| ____\/ ______
  ||||| /  /_\  \   __\  |/ /  |/    \ /  ___/
 | o o |    |    \  | |    <|  |   |  \\___ \
 |  >  | ___|__  /__| |__|_ \__|___|  /____  >
 | \_/ |       \/          \/       \/     \/
  \___/ ----- http://vibes.vossnet.co.uk/i/ighaig/ -----
 __| |__ http://voices.vossnet.co.uk/a/atkins/ascii.htm

Kevin Kreamer wrote:
> 
> Since you asked:
> 
> EBCDIC                    8     Extended Binary Coded Decimal
> Interchange Code
> 
> (I have to do IBM/370 Assembly now, which uses EBCDIC. grrrr!)

About two years ago, I wrote a printer driver for windows to print
to a really old IBM ebcdic printer, what a pain!

Even worse, I had to write it so it can do complete capabilites,
such as bold, underline, bidir printing.....

Luckly, the project was canceled before I had to write a true-type
interface and graphics.....

Ever had to controll a printer with everything mesaured in 1/28ths of
a charactor, and you only had 80something letters to work with, you
had to form anything weird by useind the . a bunch of times, useing
the 1/28th of an letter increments.......


Whoops, no artistic content in message......
|"-.   //          |       |
|   \              |       |
|    |             |___    |
|    |     ,'""`.  |   ".  |
|   /      |    |  |    |  |
|_,"       `.__,'  |    |  O
Guess I'd better add some art........




-- 
--ran...@slip.net  (Randy Gardner)
--http://www.slip.net/~randyg/index.htm  - *New*  Download a maze
  program that lets you actually walk *inside* the maze!!

	I hope this is satisfactory to all, and not too wordy.  

	The revision is approximately 65 words longer than it's predecessor, and
I hope we can all agree that every extra byte is of equal importance.  ;)  I
would really like to hear any and all input, criticisms and discrepancies.  I
must confess that my original(s) were several pages in length, as I was tempted
over and over to delve into the history of how ASCII came about and why... But
that's another story all together.


As promised...

[begin]

IS IT ASCII?  by RaD Man

	Not all "ASCII" is ASCII!  Certain computer operating systems use their
own specific character sets which are modified hybrids of the original
128-character ASCII set.  These "strains", if you will, have been deceivingly
dubbed as "Extended ASCII" or "High ASCII" as they have added symbols beyond the
first 128.  Realize that while these extra characters may seem to give you more
flexibility in your artwork, you are severely limiting your viewing audience to
those who use the same operating system as you -- thus defeating the purpose of
ASCII entirely!

	Please refrain from using these special characters in addition to the 33
special control codes in the real ASCII character set.  Remaining within the
32-126 range benefits everyone in a multitude of ways.  Not only by maximizing
the number of potential viewers, but it also ensures proper interpretation of
your artwork by others and will alter the way they perceive your abilities.
This is just one of the necessary disciplines of becoming a true ASCII artists.

[end]


ASCII Trivia:  Did you know that the very first version of ASCII was approved in
1963?  It used only six bits, and lacked lowercase letters and certain symbols!



-- enq...@npvq.bet

 RaD Man % ACiD Productions Founder % Artpacks Archive Founder

  Words to live by: " It's better to be controversial for the
  right reasons, than to be popular for the wrong reasons. "

In article <34e8a558.245082586@205.158.0.30>, rad...@nospam.acid.org
(RaD Man [ACiD Founder]) wrote:
> 
>         I hope this is satisfactory to all, and not too wordy.
> 
>         The revision is approximately 65 words longer than it's predecessor, and
> I hope we can all agree that every extra byte is of equal importance.  ;)  I
> would really like to hear any and all input, criticisms and discrepancies.  I
> must confess that my original(s) were several pages in length, as I was tempted
> over and over to delve into the history of how ASCII came about and why... But
> that's another story all together.
> 
> As promised...
> 
> [begin]
> 
> IS IT ASCII?  by RaD Man
> 
>         Not all "ASCII" is ASCII!  Certain computer operating systems use their
> own specific character sets which are modified hybrids of the original
> 128-character ASCII set.  These "strains", if you will, have been deceivingly
> dubbed as "Extended ASCII" or "High ASCII" as they have added symbols beyond the
> first 128.  Realize that while these extra characters may seem to give you more
> flexibility in your artwork, you are severely limiting your viewing audience to
> those who use the same operating system as you -- thus defeating the purpose of
> ASCII entirely!
> 
>         Please refrain from using these special characters in addition to the 33
> special control codes in the real ASCII character set.  Remaining within the
> 32-126 range benefits everyone in a multitude of ways.  Not only by maximizing
> the number of potential viewers, but it also ensures proper interpretation of
> your artwork by others and will alter the way they perceive your abilities.
> This is just one of the necessary disciplines of becoming a true ASCII artists.
> 
> [end]
> 
> ASCII Trivia:  Did you know that the very first version of ASCII was approved in
> 1963?  It used only six bits, and lacked lowercase letters and certain symbols!
> 
> -- enq...@npvq.bet
> 
>  RaD Man % ACiD Productions Founder % Artpacks Archive Founder

Having already gone on record by saying to delete the passage entirely,
I must now say that your revision looks pretty good. 

(You have a small typo in last line. It should read "becoming true ASCII
artists". Actually, I think it should read "becoming strict ASCII
artists".)


NOTE: If you hit the reply button, add an "e" to the "freent";
its absense is to stop the torment of automatic mailers.
--
llizard aka ejm                                      ,^
cq5...@freenet.toronto.on.ca          ===%^^^^^^^^^^^^
www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9334/       "    "
www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9334/asciichart.htm