Re: VOTING: rec.arts.ascii ( MODERATED )

>From: Col...@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite)

>It is essential to be very clear on _exactly what_ you are being 
>asked to vote for.

No one is trying to hide anything.  Yes, rec.arts.ascii will be a
moderated group.  That will reduce the amount of traffic waste due
to repeated posts, often requested material, flames and other items
that have no connection with ASCII art.


>EFFECT on the future of ASCII-ART

>If you favour moderation of ascii-art and decide to vote for 
>rec.arts.ascii (MODERATED) please realise that it will then be
>very difficult to establish later an _unmoderated_ mainstream
>newsgroup for ascii-art if a mainstream _moderated_ group is
>created.

The goal of rec.arts.ascii, as far as I understand it, is to
increase the propagation of ASCII art.  That is in fact helping its
future, not hurting it.  Further more, like I have said during the
RFD period there are only two ways to increase the percentage of
related posts within a group:

1)  increase the amount of related posts, and
2)  decrease the amount of unrelated posts.

The only sure way to currently implement number 2 is by moderation.
Based on what I know of the proposed moderator there is no reason
to believe that he would remove posts that are related to the
subject matter.  The only people that stand to lose are the would
be flamers and associates.


>EFFECT on the EXISTING newsgroup ALT.ASCII-ART 

>The establishment of a MODERATED mainstream group for ascii-art
>will inevitably have an effect on the present newsgroup
>ALT.ASCII-ART which has already had phenomenal success as a new
>newsgroup.

The phenomal success you refer to is probably due to the high
dedication of several now well known contributors of alt.ascii-art
that go out of their way to respond to requests for pictures or to
provide needed information to users.  In my opinion, the proposed
moderator (Bob Allison) falls within that category of individuals.


>All material rejected from the new MODERATED group and all
>dissatisfactions with that MODERATED group will inevitably get
>dumped into ALT.ASCII-ART, to the existing newsgroup's detriment. 

"All material" ?  That seems highly exaggerated.  Why would a post
about "MAKE MONEY FAST" end up in alt.ascii-art after removal from
rec.arts.ascii?  Why would the removal of a flame concerning a post
on rec.arts.ascii end up in alt.ascii-art?  They might, but if they
do it will be because the author wishes them to be displayed there
and not because the moderator wishes it.  There is a very good
chance that the "garbage" will go nowhere after it gets rejected
from rec.arts.ascii.


>STATUS of the newsgroup ALT.ASCII-ART

>In just a few months, since its first appearance in September
>1993, the existing newsgroup, ALT.ASCII-ART, has achieved a Site
>propagation level of 44% and an estimated current readership of
>84,000. It has a high signal-to-noise ratio and it is growing
>rapidly. It is a free, open and unmoderated newsgroup.

True.  See my comments above on the "phenomal success". 
Unfortunately signal-to-noise ratio is subjective.  Alt.ascii-art
has its share of multiple requests for the same item, duplicated
posts in close succesion, some unrelated material, and the
occassional flame which attracts more of the same.  There is
considerable room for improvement.  BTW, if all the "noisy" posts
were removed there would be no need for a signal-to-noise ratio!
I can see why some people could go crazy over that, after all they
would have to divide by 0 to calculate it :-)


>Unfortunately not all users of ALT.ASCII-ART are content with the
>existing newsgroup and wish to have ASCII-ART moderated to exclude
>postings they prefer not to see. These users are the proponents
>for the new newsgroup rec.arts.ascii ( MODERATED ).

Another highly exaggerated comment.  I for one am happy with what
alt.ascii-art offers since it is currently the best group for ASCII
art on the Usenet.  Nonetheless, if I were given the choice between
a group that contains ASCII art along with many "junk posts" and a
group that contains ASCII art with no "junk posts", I would prefer
the second one.  It only makes sense: the less junk that circulates
in the group, the less time I lose discarding it and the more time
I have to do more important things like creating other ASCII
pictures.  Is this too hard to understand?


>THINK CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU VOTE !

>The estimated 84,000 readers of the newsgroup alt.ascii-art ( and
>others who intend to vote ) should think very carefully about
>which way they should vote on this proposal for a MODERATED
>newsgroup.

Agreed.  Everyone is invited to look at both sides of the story and
make their own decision.  After all, it is a democratic process.


>The proponents of the new group have announced, in the CFV, that
>they will be seeking votes from the Figlet Mailing List: 

>This is a legitimate tactic to gain votes from users with a vested
>interest in having unwanted material excluded from the newsgroup
>before they receive news. The ultimate danger is that these
>mailing list users will exert undue influence on Moderators of a
>moderated newsgroup to exclude certain postings sent to the
>newsgroup.

Oh boy, here we ago again.  Would you be trying to scare people off
by any chance?  The rules that apply to CFV's allow the use of
mailing lists related to the subject matter so long as they are
stated in the CFV (looks like that has been done).  As you are well
aware, FIGLET allows the creation of ascii text in various fonts. 
That is very relevant to ASCII art since many drawings also include
text.  You would have had all the reasons in the world to complain
about the list if it had been completely un-related, but such is not
the case.


I voted YES to rec.arts.ascii and I sincerely believe that if the group
gets created, your opinions about it will be shown to be completely 
incorrect.

-- 
Normand Veilleux                As a "long term" contributing artist to
nve...@emr1.emr.ca            alt.ascii-art, I hereby declare that
----------------------------    rec.arts.ascii (MODERATED) has my support.

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