Original Usenet thread from alt.ascii-art, started 19 Apr 1998.
Half Space Technique for html art
alt.ascii-art
· 65 messages · 19 Apr 1998 - 1 May 1998
Ilmari Karonen wrote: > > Pete Casso (pet...@sympatico.ca) wrote: > : However, the following _html_ technique allows one to position monospace > : font in half space locations. The heart of the idea is that all web > : browsers are able to center the display of a line of text. The basic > : html coding technique will be explained by way of example, using the > : html tags <PRE>, <CENTER>, and <TT>, see the html code snippet below. > > Doesn't work in Lynx, nor will it work in any browser that parses HTML > like the standard says you should. You just can't put <CENTER> inside > <PRE> and call it valid HTML. Different browsers will try to make sense > of it differently, and the sensible thing Lynx does is to assume that > you meant the <CENTER> to go _after_ the <PRE> block but forgot the end > tag. So not only is the effect lost (what do you expect from a character > cell browser) but the the pictures are all smashed into ASCII soup. > > Now if the <CENTER> was outside the <PRE>, it might just work, but I > wouldn't count on it. Style sheets would do it nicely, of course, but > I don't suppose many browsers support them that well yet. :-( I can't speak for all browsers but <center> outside of <pre> does work and quite good in Netscape-all and IE-most. Donovan -- __ ( o> Poems By Donovan - http://www.geocities.com/Paris/LeftBank/6558/ ///\ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ \V_/_ ___|_|_____|_|_____|_|_____|_|_____|_|_____|_|_____|_|_____|_|__ Home of DA QUIZ! and the famous Secret Link Game. Find and Conquer the Secret Link and win a homepage award. ICQ# 812836 E-Mail:bak...@gwtc.net `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` (".___.") EVANS PLUNGE BEANIE BABIES PRICE LIST _ { + } _ ()__|>o<|__() http://www.gwtc.net/~bakd/bb.html ( . ) (_) (_) New and Retired Beanies are available!!!
There have been quite a few html discussions recently ;-)) and html
artists may be interested in the following, half space technique.
There will be many instances in generating _ascii_ art, where we would
like to position a character in a half space location, but that is
simply not possible with monospace font and pure ascii, i.e. the
location of characters on a line will be integer multiples of character
width.
However, the following _html_ technique allows one to position monospace
font in half space locations. The heart of the idea is that all web
browsers are able to center the display of a line of text. The basic
html coding technique will be explained by way of example, using the
html tags <PRE>, <CENTER>, and <TT>, see the html code snippet below.
Look at the html code snippet below with an html capable newsgroup
reader or copy the html code snippet in a text file and open the text
file with your web browser. You will see, that lines 01 to 03 show my
beloved Frogstein in his basic position, lines 05 to 07 show him with
his eyes moved forward by half a space, lines 09 to 11 show him with his
eyes moved backward by half a space.
The way for moving the eyes forward or backward by half a space is
extremely simple. In line 05, you only need to add a single space to the
left of Frogstein eyes. The total line length increases by one space,
but since the web browser centers the display, the eyes are moved
forward by only half a space. Similarly, in line 09 you add a single
space to the right of Frogstein eyes, and the web browser moves the eyes
backward by half a space.
In larger/wider pieces of html art, you may want to do half space
shifting more than once in a single line. In this case you need to pay
attention to the fact that inserting a single space will always:
=> shift all characters to the right of the insertion point by half a
space to the right;
=> _and also_ shift all characters to the left of the insertion point by
half a space to the left.
Say, that you want to maintain the position of the characters to the
left of the insertion point. What you then need to do is to add a single
space at the beginning of that line. You need to do some diddling, but
you will always be able to position characters in half space locations.
A detail comment: the <TT> tag, i.e. TeleType tag, may be superfluous
for some web browsers, but some web browsers may need it for correct
display of html (and ascii) art. In the context of this article, there
is an additional reason for using the <TT> tag: in diddling half spaces
and adding single spaces as you work, you may want to keep track of your
line lengths as part and parcel of clean workmanship.
In summary, this article describes a technique to position characters in
half space locations, an additional tool for the html artist. The heart
of the idea is to utilize the ability of web browsers to center the
display of a line of text. The basic html coding technique is provided.
For further examples on what can be achieved with this half space
technique, see my website and look carefully at the positioning of
characters in the pics, the URL of my website is in my sig. True, I have
converted all of my pics into gif and other file formats for a variety
of reasons, but I used to have my pics on the web in ascii and html
;-))
<HTML>
<BODY>
<PRE><CENTER>
Half Space Technique for html art
<TT>01 .oo </TT>
<TT>02 ( -) </TT>
<TT>03 " " </TT>
<TT>04 </TT>
<TT>05 .oo </TT>
<TT>06 ( -) </TT>
<TT>07 " " </TT>
<TT>08 </TT>
<TT>09 .oo </TT>
<TT>10 ( -) </TT>
<TT>11 " " </TT>
</CENTER> </PRE>
</BODY>
</HTML>
Wow! Supreme html Magic!
Pete Casso (pet...@sympatico.ca) wrote: : However, the following _html_ technique allows one to position monospace : font in half space locations. The heart of the idea is that all web : browsers are able to center the display of a line of text. The basic : html coding technique will be explained by way of example, using the : html tags <PRE>, <CENTER>, and <TT>, see the html code snippet below. Doesn't work in Lynx, nor will it work in any browser that parses HTML like the standard says you should. You just can't put <CENTER> inside <PRE> and call it valid HTML. Different browsers will try to make sense of it differently, and the sensible thing Lynx does is to assume that you meant the <CENTER> to go _after_ the <PRE> block but forgot the end tag. So not only is the effect lost (what do you expect from a character cell browser) but the the pictures are all smashed into ASCII soup. Now if the <CENTER> was outside the <PRE>, it might just work, but I wouldn't count on it. Style sheets would do it nicely, of course, but I don't suppose many browsers support them that well yet. :-( -- Ilmari Karonen (ilt...@sci.fi) http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/
Ilmari Karonen wrote: > Doesn't work in Lynx, nor will it work in any browser that parses HTML > like the standard says you should. You just can't put <CENTER> inside > <PRE> and call it valid HTML. Different browsers will try to make sense > of it differently, and the sensible thing Lynx does is to assume that > you meant the <CENTER> to go _after_ the <PRE> block but forgot the end > tag. So not only is the effect lost (what do you expect from a character > cell browser) but the the pictures are all smashed into ASCII soup. > > Now if the <CENTER> was outside the <PRE>, it might just work, but I > wouldn't count on it. Style sheets would do it nicely, of course, but > I don't suppose many browsers support them that well yet. :-( I am a bit surprised at this response, did you check the html code with actual web browsers? If so, what are the specifics? Prior to posting the original article, I verified the html code with the web browers that I have on my Hard Disk: Netscape versions 3.01 and 4.04, and Internet Explorer versions 2.1, 3.01, and 4.0. Moreover, two web browser generations ago, when I posted actual html code on my website, I verified with the then current Netscape and Internet Explorer versions 1.xx and 2.xx (I can't remember the actual version numbers anymore, I have deleted those old web browser versions.) In those days, there was never a comment on the display of the exhibits, so I assume that first and second generation web browsers were rendering the pics/html code correctly as well. I should mention that I use a Mac, and I can't talk about Lynx, I have never used it. But the _basics_ of html is supposed to be cross-platform, cross-browser, and cross-version ... non? Wow! Supreme html Magic!
miK wrote: >One tiny detail: I've just seen 1 (ONE) "centered" ASCII picture... >I'm looking forward to that astonishing display of the Half Space >Technique on your website, Pete :) Look at my animations, some (or many?) of them use the Half Space Technique. Please note, that Frogstein is only 5 spaces wide, and a single space move is already 20% of his body width. Depending on the requirements of the scene, that can be too much, and the Half Space Technique moves him only 10% of his body width at a time, considerably smoothing the animation. I think that my ascii animations provide "that astonishing display of Half Space Technique" that you are looking for, and following my pathologically enlarged ego ;-)) I would say that my ascii animations are the smoothest :-)) I have used the Half Space Technique in stills too, and in both stills and animations, I have used the Half Space Technique mostly in combination with other techniques. I am using these special techniques only if the pic requires their usage, since they do entail more work, and I do only simple things ;-)) >gee... Are you in the advertising business? ;) No, I am not in the advertising business, I am just enjoying a phenomenal ego ;-)) But seriously, the purpose for publishing on the web is to make the pics accessible to the widest possible audience, isn't it? Wow! Velvet smooth ascii animations! / ,, ( "> Visit the Gallery of the 'steins! ,(=>)=> http://www3.sympatico.ca/petecasso/ ( ^^ 'stein movies, 'stein games and more!
llizard wrote: > I have used the <center> outside the <pre> for the heading of my page. > > http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9334/#top > > <center> > <pre> > ,^ > ===%^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > " " > </pre> > </center> > > to achieve the following llizard centered on the page: > > ,^ > ===%^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > " " > > It works beautifully in Netscape Navigator 3.01 and MSIE 3.0 but I'm sad > to say that I *just* now looked to see if it really works in Lynx and it > looks like this there: > > ,^ > ===%^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > " " > > Too bad! I will have to rethink it. I REALLY don't like the idea of not > being Lynx friendly. ASCII-art is the only visible graphics there and so > it seems a shame to have them messed up. > > Off I go to fix the problem! > Try this (note that the right edge of the image is "filled out" with spaces. I have added a '|' character at the end of each line to visualise the right edge): <center> <pre> ,^| ===%^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | " " | </pre> </center> And if you want to colour it I suggest you use this: <center> <table><tr><td align=left bgcolor="#FFF6E9"> <pre><font color="#008000"> ,^| ===<font color="#0000FF">%</font>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | " " | </font></pre> </td></tr></table> </center> where you specify colours for both the "text" and the background. This is to save the image from looking absolutely silly (or partly invisible) in newer browsers where you can set default colours but not the colours used in <font> and <td>. Here are the examples above in a "live" html file (without the '|' characters) on my homepage: http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/pics/rubbish/llizard.dum.html -- _ _ __ ___.--'_`. __ __ _ .'_`--.___ __ ( _`.'. - 'o` ) \ \ / /__ _ _ ___ _ _ (_)__ __ _ ( 'o` - .`.'_ ) _\.'_' _.-' \ V / -_) '_/ _ \ ' \| / _/ _` | `-._ `_`./_ ( \`. ) //\` \_/\___|_| \___/_||_|_\__\__,_| '/\\ ( .'/ ) \_`-'`---'\\__, ,__//`---'`-'_/ \` `-\ uggc://jjj.yhqq.yhgu.fr/hfref/ix/ /-' '/ ` _____________________ r93...@fz.yhgu.fr ____________________ ' LIKE MY SIG? GO HERE: http://www.surfplaza.com/figlet/
miK wrote: [ 8< ] > Yes, that's a very original idea, Pete. And it's a good example too. > Then I claim to be "very original" too. I just found this owl (by ejm) in an old file of "macros" (using the definition of "macro" that somebody else here made, that it is "anything cut and pasted into the chat window") that I used for a certain chat room which only accepted a very limited number of html tags. Here I used the "half space technique" that PC describes to center the owl's head in relation to the body. .<P><H6 ALIGN=CENTER><tt> ^----^<br> (.)__(.)<br> \/<br> / vvvvv \<br> /v vvvvv v\<br> /vv vvvvv vv\<br> vvvv vvv vvvv<br> v v<br> / \<br> ((( )))</br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></tt></H6> (hush, Ilmari! I *know* it's ugly html and that </br> isn't a real tag, but it was made to work in a very specific context where the </br> *was* needed) -- _ _ __ ___.--'_`. __ __ _ .'_`--.___ __ ( _`.'. - 'o` ) \ \ / /__ _ _ ___ _ _ (_)__ __ _ ( 'o` - .`.'_ ) _\.'_' _.-' \ V / -_) '_/ _ \ ' \| / _/ _` | `-._ `_`./_ ( \`. ) //\` \_/\___|_| \___/_||_|_\__\__,_| '/\\ ( .'/ ) \_`-'`---'\\__, ,__//`---'`-'_/ \` `-\ uggc://jjj.yhqq.yhgu.fr/hfref/ix/ /-' '/ ` _____________________ r93...@fz.yhgu.fr ____________________ ' LIKE MY SIG? GO HERE: http://www.surfplaza.com/figlet/
Pete Casso wrote: [ 8< ] > => with <CENTER> <PRE> in that order, [ 8< ] > > Can anyone else verify the html code below? Looks ok in my copy of lynx: http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/pics/rubbish/petecasso.lynx2.dum.gif -- _ _ __ ___.--'_`. __ __ _ .'_`--.___ __ ( _`.'. - 'o` ) \ \ / /__ _ _ ___ _ _ (_)__ __ _ ( 'o` - .`.'_ ) _\.'_' _.-' \ V / -_) '_/ _ \ ' \| / _/ _` | `-._ `_`./_ ( \`. ) //\` \_/\___|_| \___/_||_|_\__\__,_| '/\\ ( .'/ ) \_`-'`---'\\__, ,__//`---'`-'_/ \` `-\ uggc://jjj.yhqq.yhgu.fr/hfref/ix/ /-' '/ ` _____________________ r93...@fz.yhgu.fr ____________________ ' LIKE MY SIG? GO HERE: http://www.surfplaza.com/figlet/
miK wrote: > Pete Casso wrote: [ 8< ] > I just had a look at the Lynx screendump Veronica made... > > No wonder that version doesn't support the center tag: > > 1. Lynx 2.6 probably means it's a 2nd generation browser. [ 8< ] No, it's just a version number. For example, the browser in question handles frames just fine (but in a way that does not look at all like the way netscape or IE handles frames). This is also true for images - if your screen is capable of viewing images. > 2. Lynx 2.6 looks like some sort of Notepad or SimpleText with a NetSurfer's > license. Maybe that's what Ilmari meant, when he called his Lynx a "character > cell browser". Yes! :) (lynx is *cool*!) [ 8< ] > >The above discussion is therefore on how to code the html such that as > >many as possible websurfers actually see the Half Space Technique > >rendered correctly. We are now at 90% to 95% of websurfers, can we make > >it 99%? Yes :) (and it's nice to see that you recognise the fact that 99 > 95 > 90 :) -- _ _ __ ___.--'_`. __ __ _ .'_`--.___ __ ( _`.'. - 'o` ) \ \ / /__ _ _ ___ _ _ (_)__ __ _ ( 'o` - .`.'_ ) _\.'_' _.-' \ V / -_) '_/ _ \ ' \| / _/ _` | `-._ `_`./_ ( \`. ) //\` \_/\___|_| \___/_||_|_\__\__,_| '/\\ ( .'/ ) \_`-'`---'\\__, ,__//`---'`-'_/ \` `-\ uggc://jjj.yhqq.yhgu.fr/hfref/ix/ /-' '/ ` _____________________ r93...@fz.yhgu.fr ____________________ ' LIKE MY SIG? GO HERE: http://www.surfplaza.com/figlet/
Pete Casso wrote: > > miK wrote: > >One tiny detail: I've just seen 1 (ONE) "centered" ASCII picture... http://www.geocities.com/southbeach/palms/2115/main.html The header's centered -- that makes two. :) -- _- BluePard ;' )\_ ___ "A foot falls, yet makes no sound...." | ```` \ .-. http://www.geocities.com/southbeach/palms/2115 (\| / ( _)\ //`-` _-'_.' "---' `---' Both dream and dreamer
Pete Casso wrote:
[ 8< ]
Your code example in netscape 3.something, unix:
http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/pics/rubbish/petecasso.netscape3.dum.gif
The exact same html document as seen in lynx 2.6, unix:
http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/pics/rubbish/petecasso.lynx.dum.gif
--
_ _
__ ___.--'_`. __ __ _ .'_`--.___ __
( _`.'. - 'o` ) \ \ / /__ _ _ ___ _ _ (_)__ __ _ ( 'o` - .`.'_ )
_\.'_' _.-' \ V / -_) '_/ _ \ ' \| / _/ _` | `-._ `_`./_
( \`. ) //\` \_/\___|_| \___/_||_|_\__\__,_| '/\\ ( .'/ )
\_`-'`---'\\__, ,__//`---'`-'_/
\` `-\ uggc://jjj.yhqq.yhgu.fr/hfref/ix/ /-' '/
` _____________________ r93...@fz.yhgu.fr ____________________ '
LIKE MY SIG? GO HERE: http://www.surfplaza.com/figlet/
Pete Casso <pet...@sympatico.ca> wrote: >However, the following _html_ technique allows one to position monospace >font in half space locations. The heart of the idea is that all web >browsers are able to center the display of a line of text. The basic >html coding technique will be explained by way of example, using the >html tags <PRE>, <CENTER>, and <TT>, see the html code snippet below. Yes, that's a very original idea, Pete. And it's a good example too. I've loaded your code in 3 different browsers of different generations (MSIE 4.0, NNgold 3.01, and winWeb 2.0 -- all under Windows95) and the code works in all three! But, like Ilmari said it's better to put the "center" tag outside the "pre" tag. Just like this: <HTML> <BODY> <CENTER><PRE> Half Space Technique for html art <TT>01 .oo </TT> <TT>02 ( -) </TT> <TT>03 " " </TT> <TT>04 </TT> <TT>05 .oo </TT> <TT>06 ( -) </TT> <TT>07 " " </TT> <TT>08 </TT> <TT>09 .oo </TT> <TT>10 ( -) </TT> <TT>11 " " </TT> </PRE></CENTER> </BODY> </HTML> To my knowledge this sample is valid HTML 3.2 code, but Ilmari seems to disagree :) mic
ilt...@sci.fi (Ilmari Karonen) wrote: >Pete Casso (pet...@sympatico.ca) wrote: >: However, the following _html_ technique allows one to position monospace >: font in half space locations. The heart of the idea is that all web >: browsers are able to center the display of a line of text. The basic >: html coding technique will be explained by way of example, using the >: html tags <PRE>, <CENTER>, and <TT>, see the html code snippet below. >Doesn't work in Lynx, nor will it work in any browser that parses HTML >like the standard says you should. You just can't put <CENTER> inside ><PRE> and call it valid HTML. Different browsers will try to make sense >of it differently, and the sensible thing Lynx does is to assume that >you meant the <CENTER> to go _after_ the <PRE> block but forgot the end >tag. So not only is the effect lost (what do you expect from a character >cell browser) but the the pictures are all smashed into ASCII soup. A "character cell browser"?? What do you mean by that? >Now if the <CENTER> was outside the <PRE>, it might just work, but I >wouldn't count on it. Why not? Did you try? To my knowledge this is valid HTML 3.2 code: <HTML> <BODY> <CENTER><PRE> Half Space Technique for html art <TT>01 .oo </TT> <TT>02 ( -) </TT> <TT>03 " " </TT> <TT>04 </TT> <TT>05 .oo </TT> <TT>06 ( -) </TT> <TT>07 " " </TT> <TT>08 </TT> <TT>09 .oo </TT> <TT>10 ( -) </TT> <TT>11 " " </TT> </PRE></CENTER> </BODY> </HTML> The teletype tags are redundant of course, but PC gave a good reason to add those. >Style sheets would do it nicely, of course, but >I don't suppose many browsers support them that well yet. :-( Now you mention it. I just found a booklet about typewriter art -- Bob Neill's Second Book of Typewriter Art (1984) -- with good descriptions of "how-to-do-it-yourself". Ofcourse, typing the portrait of Barry Manilow or JR Ewing has allways been one of my biggest dreams. ;) There's a slight drawback though: he *overtypes* to obtain a broader greyscale palette. But using layers in html 4.0 I might make it work on a webpage. One day... ciao, mic
miK wrote:
> Yes, that's a very original idea, Pete. And it's a good example too.
Thanks miK and others for all the feedback received.
Status sofar:
=> with <PRE> <CENTER> in that order,
the html code works for:
NS 3 & 4, and IE 2, 3 & 4, for the Mac
NS 3 for Unix
NS 3, IE 4, and WinWeb2 on Windows
the html code does not work for
Lynx 2 for Unix
I would say that the html code works for about 90% of websurfers
=> with <CENTER> <PRE> in that order, I have just verified that
the html code works for all five browsers that I have on my
Mac: NS 3 & 4, and IE 2, 3 & 4.
It is probably safe to assume that this html code works for
the above mentioned web browsers as well, again catering for
about 90% of websurfers.
If this html code works for Lynx and other similar browsers,
then we would cater for about 95% of websurfers, which is quite
good, I would say.
Can anyone else verify the html code below?
With all kinds of web browsers on all kinds of computers?
<HTML>
<BODY>
<CENTER> <PRE>
Half Space Technique for html art
<TT>01 .oo </TT>
<TT>02 ( -) </TT>
<TT>03 " " </TT>
<TT>04 </TT>
<TT>05 .oo </TT>
<TT>06 ( -) </TT>
<TT>07 " " </TT>
<TT>08 </TT>
<TT>09 .oo </TT>
<TT>10 ( -) </TT>
<TT>11 " " </TT>
</PRE> </CENTER>
</BODY>
</HTML>
I would like to point out, that you can try out the Half Space Technique
on your own computer with any text editor that supports centering of
text. I personally like MS Word (because of its many features not under
discussion in this thread,) but much simpler text editors should already
have this centering feature (although the simplest text editors will
_not_ have this centering feature, perhaps we should update the FAQ?)
The above discussion is therefore on how to code the html such that as
many as possible websurfers actually see the Half Space Technique
rendered correctly. We are now at 90% to 95% of websurfers, can we make
it 99%?
Wow! Supreme html Magic!
/
,,
( "> Visit the Gallery of the 'steins!
,(=>)=> http://www3.sympatico.ca/petecasso/
( ^^ 'stein movies, 'stein games and more!
Pete Casso <pet...@sympatico.ca> wrote: >miK wrote: >> Yes, that's a very original idea, Pete. And it's a good example too. >Thanks miK and others for all the feedback received. There will be more feedback. Believe me :) >Status sofar: >=> with <PRE> <CENTER> in that order, > the html code works for: > NS 3 & 4, and IE 2, 3 & 4, for the Mac > NS 3 for Unix > NS 3, IE 4, and WinWeb2 on Windows > the html code does not work for > Lynx 2 for Unix I just had a look at the Lynx screendump Veronica made... No wonder that version doesn't support the center tag: 1. Lynx 2.6 probably means it's a 2nd generation browser. And <center></center> wasn't valid in the official HTML 2.0. It worked in my winWeb 2, because that specific prog supports additional Netscape 2 features (one of those was the center tag, I believe). I have no idea why your piece of code works fine in your IE 2 for Mac. It shouldn't :) 2. Lynx 2.6 looks like some sort of Notepad or SimpleText with a NetSurfer's license. Maybe that's what Ilmari meant, when he called his Lynx a "character cell browser". [snipped] >I would like to point out, that you can try out the Half Space Technique >on your own computer with any text editor that supports centering of >text. I personally like MS Word (because of its many features not under >discussion in this thread,) but much simpler text editors should already >have this centering feature (although the simplest text editors will >_not_ have this centering feature, perhaps we should update the FAQ?) Yes, an ASCII-HTML miniFAQ. I support that. The longest threads are about putting ASCII-art on the Web lately. (I'm guilty too :) About viewing ASCII-art in advanced editors like Word: <dejavu>Strictly speaking it is ASCII-art, but in a broader sense it isn't what this newsgroup is all about.</dejavu> <h1>This is a non-binary newsgroup and a Word .doc is a binary file</h1> BTW Joan pointed out not so long ago there was a bunch of people on AOL who made "ASCII-art" using a proportional font -- Arial -- (they were restricted by the AOL newsprog). They called their pictures "macro's", if I remember correctly. Maybe these people have a FAQ of their own. If they have, our FAQ could be linked to that one. >The above discussion is therefore on how to code the html such that as >many as possible websurfers actually see the Half Space Technique >rendered correctly. We are now at 90% to 95% of websurfers, can we make >it 99%? gee... Are you in the advertising business? ;) One tiny detail: I've just seen 1 (ONE) "centered" ASCII picture... I'm looking forward to that astonishing display of the Half Space Technique on your website, Pete :) bye, mic
miK (mmi...@dataweb.nl) wrote: : A "character cell browser"?? What do you mean by that? One that works entirely in text mode, which makes one character the smallest unit of distance (instead of one pixel in graphical browsers). : >Now if the <CENTER> was outside the <PRE>, it might just work, but I : >wouldn't count on it. : Why not? Did you try? : To my knowledge this is valid HTML 3.2 code: Yes it is, but some browsers may interpret it strangely. And of course on some browsers the technique simply can't and won't work. -- __,,,------._ ,-/| `-. Ilmari Karonen (ilt...@sci.fi) ^ All opinions expressed /, '\, `. ,|"-;;.__ http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ | in this message are my / ' 4(_,-_,-"_,/.' `'--' ,------------------------' own. If you want me to "`-(_,-"" `-' (,' itz | make some for you too, you should pay for them!
miK (mmi...@dataweb.nl) wrote: : 1. Lynx 2.6 probably means it's a 2nd generation browser. And : <center></center> wasn't valid in the official HTML 2.0. It worked in : my winWeb 2, because that specific prog supports additional Netscape 2 : features (one of those was the center tag, I believe). I have no idea : why your piece of code works fine in your IE 2 for Mac. It shouldn't :) No, Lynx 2.6 AFAICR supports HTML 3.2. The latest Lynx 2.something even understands many HTML 4.0 features. : 2. Lynx 2.6 looks like some sort of Notepad or SimpleText with a : NetSurfer's license. Maybe that's what Ilmari meant, when he called : his Lynx a "character cell browser". Exactly. -- . _, .. j u s t. h o w l.i n g i n .t h e n.i g h t .. ._, . , )'' . /\_ . ' ,/\ . , ``( , _\__/ |__.'\._______,--;_'_`-.___,.______,/_,_`.__,-.__'__,/`-._,_| \____ ,_f_)\. Ilmari Karonen ilt...@sci.fi http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ /(_|_,.
I just checked the example in Netscape 4.0.4 and MacLynx 1.0b under the MacOS and with Lynx/2.7.1f under unix and the code renders properly in all three of those programs. In article <353...@sympatico.ca>, Pete Casso <pet...@sympatico.ca> wrote: > Can anyone else verify the html code below? > With all kinds of web browsers on all kinds of computers? > > <HTML> > <BODY> > > <CENTER> <PRE> > > Half Space Technique for html art > > <TT>01 .oo </TT> > <TT>02 ( -) </TT> > <TT>03 " " </TT> > <TT>04 </TT> > <TT>05 .oo </TT> > <TT>06 ( -) </TT> > <TT>07 " " </TT> > <TT>08 </TT> > <TT>09 .oo </TT> > <TT>10 ( -) </TT> > <TT>11 " " </TT> > > </PRE> </CENTER> > > </BODY> > </HTML> -- ___ ___ ___ ___ Doug Wilson ______/ /___/ /___/ /___/ /__________ dwi...@hotmail.com \ = : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : / http://www.cybcon.com/~dwilson ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "And my heart will go on..."
miK wrote in message <6hek6o$p3$1...@news.Leiden.NL.net>... >Pete Casso <pet...@sympatico.ca> wrote: >I just had a look at the Lynx screendump Veronica made... > >No wonder that version doesn't support the center tag: > >1. Lynx 2.6 probably means it's a 2nd generation browser. And <center></center> >wasn't valid in the official HTML 2.0. It worked in my winWeb 2, because that >specific prog supports additional Netscape 2 features (one of those was the >center tag, I believe). I have no idea why your piece of code works fine in your >IE 2 for Mac. It shouldn't :) *Was* <CENTER> ever valid? All of the HTML tutorials I've read listed it as a Netscapism. The HTML 4.0 spec calls it deprecated shorthand for <DIV align="center">. Lynx is only at 2.8 now; and it does support a lot of HTML features (at least what it can display ;) on text only). >About viewing ASCII-art in advanced editors like Word: <dejavu>Strictly speaking >it is ASCII-art, but in a broader sense it isn't what this newsgroup is all >about.</dejavu> ><h1>This is a non-binary newsgroup and a Word .doc is a binary file</h1> <em>Word <strong>can</strong> read and write plain text files (.txt) along with various and sundry other formats.</em> >BTW Joan pointed out not so long ago there was a bunch of people on AOL who made >"ASCII-art" using a proportional font -- Arial -- (they were restricted by the >AOL newsprog). They called their pictures "macro's", if I remember correctly. >Maybe these people have a FAQ of their own. If they have, our FAQ could be >linked to that one. Actually I think all of AOL is restricted by Arial. They call their pictures macros in chat, I know (on MSN, a macro is anything cut-and-pasted into the chat window, whether a picture, or a silly quote like [name removed]: hey, i suck on other things too --sometimes macro support is built into the chat program [Gamer, GamerX, and MSChat have macros, Serious Chat i *think* does, and the beta of UKChat doesn't, unfortunately].) On MSN the default fonts are MS Sans Serif (ick.) and there are some ASCII-art macros but not many because they're not encouraged in chat. I'm pretty sure AOL users wouldn't have a FAQ for that but I could be wrong. Boy, I went off on a tangent today lol >>BKNambo -- and that's just the way it is...
In article <6hf7tr$nvo$2...@tron.sci.fi>, ilt...@sci.fi (Ilmari Karonen) wrote: > : >Now if the <CENTER> was outside the <PRE>, it might just work, but I > : >wouldn't count on it. > : Why not? Did you try? > : To my knowledge this is valid HTML 3.2 code: > > Yes it is, but some browsers may interpret it strangely. And of course > on some browsers the technique simply can't and won't work. I have used the <center> outside the <pre> for the heading of my page. http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9334/#top <center> <pre> ,^ ===%^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ " " </pre> </center> to achieve the following llizard centered on the page: ,^ ===%^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ " " It works beautifully in Netscape Navigator 3.01 and MSIE 3.0 but I'm sad to say that I *just* now looked to see if it really works in Lynx and it looks like this there: ,^ ===%^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ " " Too bad! I will have to rethink it. I REALLY don't like the idea of not being Lynx friendly. ASCII-art is the only visible graphics there and so it seems a shame to have them messed up. Off I go to fix the problem! NOTE: If you hit the reply button, add an "e" to the "freent"; its absense is to stop the torment of automatic mailers. -- ___ ASCII-art and Javascript ASCII-animations _/ |===%^, www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9334/ |_____| __\/> cq5...@freenet.toronto.on.ca --- == > llizard aka ejm [_____] __>,^ ejm98 | | //| |
miK (mmi...@dataweb.nl) wrote: > Pete Casso <pet...@sympatico.ca> wrote: > >miK wrote: > >> Yes, that's a very original idea, Pete. And it's a good example too. I think the same can be done without the <tt> tags. Take an ASCII frame centered, add an extra character in one of the lines. The left side of the frame will be half space to left and the right side half space to right. But I really can't remember if this works everytime. > > the html code does not work for > > Lynx 2 for Unix > I just had a look at the Lynx screendump Veronica made... > No wonder that version doesn't support the center tag: At least some versions of lynx DO support the <center> tag, but lynx was made to work on xterm windows or VT emulation terminals as well on those real old VT100, 200, 220, etc. And there's no way you can put half space on one of those, they are a matrix of characters pre-positioned. The centering is done to the best fit. Anti-spam measure: remove the scalp to reply by email -- .. ... .,----------------------------------,-. .. . I .. . .... .. . / Armando Frazao - aka Seal /--' .. ,'.`. ... .. .. / --*-- / .__,-'.:::.`-.__, .. . / L33812 @ alfa.ist.utl.pt / . .. ~-------------~ .. / http://alfa.ist.utl.pt/~l33812 / .. _|=|___|=|_ . (__________________________________(_; .__,-'.:::::::::.`-.__, .\/./ ~-------------------~ '\|/` "Mystery is the key to enchantment" _|_|_|___|_|_|_ _|_
Tim Park wrote: [ 8< ] > Does anyone think that the discussion of this "high-technology ASCII" is > taking some of the fun out of it? Yes, and I also question its presence in this newsgroup. PC knows this and I suspect that he's trying to provoke another flame war. However, I think this latest idea of his is less off-topic than his previous "text art plus" (a computerised version of text art experiments from about 100 years ago, focused around PC's frog and bird cartoon characters). Maybe there should be a group called "alt.text-art", or something like that, for "non-pure" types of text art? I know there are Japanese grups about the use of Japanese computer character sets to create a form of text art... -- _ _ __ ___.--'_`. __ __ _ .'_`--.___ __ ( _`.'. - 'o` ) \ \ / /__ _ _ ___ _ _ (_)__ __ _ ( 'o` - .`.'_ ) _\.'_' _.-' \ V / -_) '_/ _ \ ' \| / _/ _` | `-._ `_`./_ ( \`. ) //\` \_/\___|_| \___/_||_|_\__\__,_| '/\\ ( .'/ ) \_`-'`---'\\__, ,__//`---'`-'_/ \` `-\ uggc://jjj.yhqq.yhgu.fr/hfref/ix/ /-' '/ ` _____________________ r93...@fz.yhgu.fr ____________________ ' LIKE MY SIG? GO HERE: http://www.surfplaza.com/figlet/
Veronica Karlsson wrote: > Yes, and I also question its presence in this newsgroup. PC knows this > and I suspect that he's trying to provoke another flame war. However, You better question your own judgement, Veronicastein! I was joining *on-going* html discussions by disclosing html techniques that I used to use well over a year ago on my website (I no longer use them.) Please note the emphasis on the keyword *on-going* which means that others on this newsgroup consider them on topic. Don't start flaming me again, as I said several times in the past, although I am not looking for a flame war, I am not going to avoid a flame war either! Sheesh! The jealousy motivated flames of the asciigangsteins! Every time I announce something nice! / ,, ( "> Visit the Gallery of the 'steins! ,(=>)=> http://www3.sympatico.ca/petecasso/ ( ^^ 'stein movies, 'stein games and more!
I think that it is useful (for those that actually understand it, unlike me) but I also feel that it is terribly boring going through message after message of these mailings. I read this group for ascii art, not a bunch of technical garbage. (Maybe there should be a newsgroup for the technical side of things...) Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > Tim Park wrote: > [ 8< ] > > Does anyone think that the discussion of this "high-technology ASCII" is > > taking some of the fun out of it? > > Yes, and I also question its presence in this newsgroup. PC knows this > and I suspect that he's trying to provoke another flame war. However, I > think this latest idea of his is less off-topic than his previous "text > art plus" (a computerised version of text art experiments from about 100 > years ago, focused around PC's frog and bird cartoon characters). Maybe > there should be a group called "alt.text-art", or something like that, > for "non-pure" types of text art? I know there are Japanese grups about > the use of Japanese computer character sets to create a form of text > art... > > -- > _ _ > __ ___.--'_`. __ __ _ .'_`--.___ __ > ( _`.'. - 'o` ) \ \ / /__ _ _ ___ _ _ (_)__ __ _ ( 'o` - .`.'_ ) > _\.'_' _.-' \ V / -_) '_/ _ \ ' \| / _/ _` | `-._ `_`./_ > ( \`. ) //\` \_/\___|_| \___/_||_|_\__\__,_| '/\\ ( .'/ ) > \_`-'`---'\\__, ,__//`---'`-'_/ > \` `-\ uggc://jjj.yhqq.yhgu.fr/hfref/ix/ /-' '/ > ` _____________________ r93...@fz.yhgu.fr ____________________ ' > LIKE MY SIG? GO HERE: http://www.surfplaza.com/figlet/
Tim Park wrote in message <6himdd$82...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>... >"Brock Kevin Nambo" (new...@earthling.net) writes: >> Of course, GIF is a proprietary format, so only certain browsermakers can >> put it in--whether by personal inability or by personal choice (FSF, for >> example, will have no truck with GIF)--so any browsers made by those people >> won't make it. > >So pick your favourite image format. >Last I heard, I thought that GIF had to be licensed only if you wanted to >have "encoding"/save routines in your code, and that loaders were okay. >(This argument doesn't affect personal choice, but I still wanted to >mention it) But what if I had it in an animated GIF? (How many other formats have animation allowed?) >>BKNambo -- Sun...@msn.com World Domination through Trivia! [ chatquiz | onGames | MarsMission ]
Pete Casso <pet...@sympatico.ca> wrote: >miK wrote: >>One tiny detail: I've just seen 1 (ONE) "centered" ASCII picture... >>I'm looking forward to that astonishing display of the Half Space >>Technique on your website, Pete :) >Look at my animations, some (or many?) of them use the Half Space >Technique. Damn, you're right. Guess my straight ASCII mind must have managed to deny those undesirable indents... until now... >Please note, that Frogstein is only 5 spaces wide, and a >single space move is already 20% of his body width. Depending on the >requirements of the scene, that can be too much, and the Half Space >Technique moves him only 10% of his body width at a time, considerably >smoothing the animation. I think that my ascii animations provide "that >astonishing display of Half Space Technique" that you are looking for, You're too modest, Pete. I'ld bet you've got an essay on "Nano Space Technique" up your sleeve. :) >and following my pathologically enlarged ego ;-)) I would say that my >ascii animations are the smoothest :-)) LOL :) And silly me attributed this "smoothness" to GIF 89a... >I have used the Half Space Technique in stills too, and in both stills >and animations, I have used the Half Space Technique mostly in >combination with other techniques. I am using these special techniques >only if the pic requires their usage, since they do entail more work, >and I do only simple things ;-)) LOL :) >>gee... Are you in the advertising business? ;) >No, I am not in the advertising business, I am just enjoying a >phenomenal ego ;-)) But seriously, the purpose for publishing on the >web is to make the pics accessible to the widest possible audience, >isn't it? Oh my... That's a tricky question... Offhand: not necessarily... *I'll be back* :) mic
miK (mmi...@dataweb.nl) writes: > You're too modest, Pete. I'ld bet you've got an essay on "Nano Space Technique" > up your sleeve. :) Just create a 1-pixel-sized transparent GIF, and insert it between characters or lines at whatever size you want. Though, I'm not going to go into a dissertation on the pros and cons of this, and what browsers it will and won't work with. (Sorry, no essay) -- Tim Park (ad5...@freenet.carleton.ca) # RANCO Shampoo Rep / OSMC Parapara Rep Member of the #ShAS#: Shampoo Appreciation Society - Our favourite femaline! World Wide Woozle: http://www.fiction.org/www/ -----------------------------
miK wrote: >You're too modest, Pete. I'ld bet you've got an essay on "Nano Space >Technique" up your sleeve. :) Oh my, you cajoled my ego ;-)) OK, here is a little, improvised essay. "Nano Space Technique" can be had with dynamic html which allows for positioning of ascii characters (and other things) with pixel accuracy. Unfortunately, only fourth generation web browsers support it, too new for many websurfers to have it, i.e. too small of an audience, and after giving it some thought, I decided to wait with launching "The Dynamicsteins" Java can do the same thing with the older third generation web browsers (for which there is already a larger audience,) and I launched "The Javasteins" If you observe carefully, then you will notice that the Java based ascii animations are even smoother because of the pixel accuracy. The animation cannot be infinitely smooth because of a fundamental consideration: you would need many frames that change very little from frame to frame, but you need to play the frames very fast to achieve the speed of motion that you want. This hits two limiting factors: number of frames = filesize and the first limiting factor is therefore the associated download time from the web. The second limiting factor is the capability of the user's computer to display a lot of picture data rather quickly. This fundamental consideration is independent of file format, be it dynamic html or gif or Java or anything else. I have said before in this newsgroup, that I have designed the Java movies for the oldest Pentiums (or the oldest PPCs in case of the Mac.) The explanation is related to the above mentioned fundamental consideration. Provided that this minimum computer requirement is satisfied, "The Javasteins" is adequate proof of concept that Java can achieve discernable improvement over gif (at least as far as ascii art animation is concerned) everything else being equal. And of course, technology advances relentlessly, both Java VMs and hardware double their speed resulting in quadruple speed every 18 months or so, nice prospects for a little hobby :-)) Wow! Velvet smooth ascii animations! / ,, ( "> Visit the Gallery of the 'steins! ,(=>)=> http://www3.sympatico.ca/petecasso/ ( ^^ 'stein movies, 'stein games and more!
Tim Park wrote in message <6hh9vr$8n...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>... > >miK (mmi...@dataweb.nl) writes: >> You're too modest, Pete. I'ld bet you've got an essay on "Nano Space Technique" >> up your sleeve. :) > >Just create a 1-pixel-sized transparent GIF, and insert it between >characters or lines at whatever size you want. > >Though, I'm not going to go into a dissertation on the pros and cons of this, >and what browsers it will and won't work with. (Sorry, no essay) OK I will <g> Lynx, etc, -- text only browsers will at best ignore yer spaces and at worst fill your image with [IMAGE] tags (you did remember to say alt="" right?) Of course, GIF is a proprietary format, so only certain browsermakers can put it in--whether by personal inability or by personal choice (FSF, for example, will have no truck with GIF)--so any browsers made by those people won't make it. >>BKNambo -- Sun...@msn.com World Domination through Trivia! [ chatquiz | onGames | MarsMission ]
"Brock Kevin Nambo" (new...@earthling.net) writes: > Tim Park wrote in message <6hh9vr$8n...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>... >>Just create a 1-pixel-sized transparent GIF, and insert it between >>characters or lines at whatever size you want. >>Though, I'm not going to go into a dissertation on the pros and cons of >>this, and what browsers it will and won't work with. (Sorry, no essay) > Lynx, etc, -- text only browsers will at best ignore yer spaces and at worst <sigh> I should have at least mentioned Lynx, because it's an "obvious" choice not to work. Since it's a "character cell browser", I don't see how it even works with the "Half Space Technique", unless it's using some kind of control codes on certain terminals. (No, I haven't bothered to test it yet) > fill your image with [IMAGE] tags (you did remember to say alt="" right?) Of course I did. :) > Of course, GIF is a proprietary format, so only certain browsermakers can > put it in--whether by personal inability or by personal choice (FSF, for > example, will have no truck with GIF)--so any browsers made by those people > won't make it. So pick your favourite image format. Last I heard, I thought that GIF had to be licensed only if you wanted to have "encoding"/save routines in your code, and that loaders were okay. (This argument doesn't affect personal choice, but I still wanted to mention it) Does anyone think that the discussion of this "high-technology ASCII" is taking some of the fun out of it? -- Tim Park (ad5...@freenet.carleton.ca) # RANCO Shampoo Rep / OSMC Parapara Rep Member of the #ShAS#: Shampoo Appreciation Society - Our favourite femaline! World Wide Woozle: http://www.fiction.org/www/ -----------------------------
In article <353...@on.spammer>, Veronica Karlsson <dre...@on.spammer> wrote: > > llizard wrote: > > I have used the <center> outside the <pre> for the heading of my page. [snip] > > > > to achieve the following llizard centered on the page: > > > > ,^ > > ===%^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > " " > > > > It works beautifully in Netscape Navigator 3.01 and MSIE 3.0 but I'm sad > > to say that I *just* now looked to see if it really works in Lynx and it > > looks like this there: > > > > ,^ > > ===%^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > " " > > > > Too bad! I will have to rethink it. I REALLY don't like the idea of not > > being Lynx friendly. ASCII-art is the only visible graphics there and so > > it seems a shame to have them messed up. [snip] > Try this (note that the right edge of the image is "filled out" with > spaces. I have added a '|' character at the end of each line to > visualise the right edge): > > <center> > <pre> > ,^| > ===%^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | > " " | > </pre> > </center> > > And if you want to colour it I suggest you use this: > > <center> > <table><tr><td align=left bgcolor="#FFF6E9"> > <pre><font color="#008000"> > ,^| > ===<font color="#0000FF">%</font>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | > " " | > </font></pre> > </td></tr></table> > </center> > > where you specify colours for both the "text" and the background. This > is to save the image from looking absolutely silly (or partly invisible) > in newer browsers where you can set default colours but not the colours > used in <font> and <td>. . _________ XII | | ___ ha X---* III| _/ | ,^%--- ha / | |_____| __<_ \ ha __/_VI___| --- == >/ Thank you, Veronica [_____] __>,^ ejm98 | | //| | I have now implimented what you suggested and FINALLY that llizard llooks the way it should in Lynx (except that it's not centered). __|____ ~---, !!! | \_,^%--- ^^%--- | > \ Now I can happily go back "__\___|_ ___/> to the drawing board. /|\ (# o)> / | \ '-~/|^^ | \ ejm97 | \ NOTE: If you hit the reply button, add an "e" to the "freent"; its absense is to stop the torment of automatic mailers. -- _ _ ASCII-art and Javascript ASCII-animations =#-(_X_),^^%--- www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9334/ \/<\ \ cq5...@freenet.toronto.on.ca > \, Of course, llizard aka ejm -->--#- I really should /|^^ be practicing!! ejm98 / \
Geech <swi...@slkc.uswest.net> wrote:
>(Maybe there should be a newsgroup for the technical side of things...)
newgrp alt.ascii-art.d
cheers,
cb
--
Cyberspace Buddha /(0\ What's on, your mind?
mailto:c...@io.com \1)/ http://www.io.com/~cb
Not your fathers buddha.
.----- On Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:27:55 GMT, Pete Casso posted:
|Please
|note the emphasis on the keyword *on-going* which means that others on
|this newsgroup consider them on topic.
'----------------------------
I started an HTML thread, however this was about displaying 'real' asciiart on the web, a
problem that has been discussed before, and will be discussed again.
I simply suggested the <PLAINTEXT> tag as a way of displaying what are basically text
files with body colours and a heading.
I have since discovered that it is out of date, and therefore was a good idea, but fatally
flawed.
You, on the other hand, are talking about a way of changing ascii art to something it can`t
usually be by 'cheating' the web browser into moving the lines a half space, therefore
this is not 'real' asciiart.
See you......
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llizard wrote: > Veronica Karlsson wrote: [ 8< ] > > And if you want to colour it I suggest you use this: > > > > <center> > > <table><tr><td align=left bgcolor="#FFF6E9"> > > <pre><font color="#008000"> > > ,^| > > ===<font color="#0000FF">%</font>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | > > " " | > > </font></pre> > > </td></tr></table> > > </center> > > > > where you specify colours for both the "text" and the background. This > > is to save the image from looking absolutely silly (or partly invisible) > > in newer browsers where you can set default colours but not the colours > > used in <font> and <td>. [ 8< ] > I have now implimented what you suggested and FINALLY that llizard > llooks the way it should in Lynx (except that it's not centered). lloks fine in netscape 4 too: http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/pics/rubbish/llizard.dum.gif (and here you see what I meant with the table background on coloured images trick too) [ 8< ] > _ _ ASCII-art and Javascript ASCII-animations > =#-(_X_),^^%--- www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9334/ > \/<\ \ cq5...@freenet.toronto.on.ca [ 8< ] A little suggestion, if you keep the "http://" part on the URL in your sig it will become a clickable link in some news programs. And if you put "mailto:" in front of the email address that too becomes a link (same with "news:" for newsgroups, e.g. news:alt.ascii-art ). -- _ _ __ ___.--'_`. __ __ _ .'_`--.___ __ ( _`.'. - 'o` ) \ \ / /__ _ _ ___ _ _ (_)__ __ _ ( 'o` - .`.'_ ) _\.'_' _.-' \ V / -_) '_/ _ \ ' \| / _/ _` | `-._ `_`./_ ( \`. ) //\` \_/\___|_| \___/_||_|_\__\__,_| '/\\ ( .'/ ) \_`-'`---'\\__, ,__//`---'`-'_/ \` `-\ uggc://jjj.yhqq.yhgu.fr/hfref/ix/ /-' '/ ` _____________________ r93...@fz.yhgu.fr ____________________ ' LIKE MY SIG? GO HERE: http://www.surfplaza.com/figlet/
Martin Atkins wrote: > You, on the other hand, are talking about a way of changing ascii art > to something it can`t usually be by 'cheating' the web browser into > moving the lines a half space, therefore this is not 'real' asciiart. Well, if you declare adding half spaces a "cheat" then by the same token, you must declare adding monospace fonts to the ascii standard, and therefore pretty well all ascii art postings on this newsgroup a "cheat" as well. Vice versa, if you declare adding monospace fonts "real" then by the same token, you must declare adding half spaces "real" as well. You sound a little like the Russian general who was defeated by a much smaller army led by Napoleon, and then said of Napoleon: "That man does not know how to conduct battles!" Of course, Napoleon did not follow the state of the battle art at the time, he advanced the state of the art ... More topically speaking, a standard is typically used by its user community both for its utilitarian value *and* as a platform to innovate on. In case of the ascii standard, the user community has innovated and added monospace fonts, colours, half spaces ... Trying to deny the role of a standard as a foundation for further development amounts to self-limiting behaviour (such as those driven by jealousy), either as an individual or as a group, that will eventually fail to stop progress from happening anyway. You can't stop evolution! ... Darwinstein / ,, ( "> Visit the Gallery of the 'steins! ,(=>)=> http://www3.sympatico.ca/petecasso/ ( ^^ 'stein movies, 'stein games and more!
llizard wrote: > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > llizard wrote: > > > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > > > > > > > And if you want to colour it I suggest you use this: > > > > > > > > <center> > > > > <table><tr><td align=left bgcolor="#FFF6E9"> > > > > <pre><font color="#008000"> > > > > ,^| > > > > ===<font color="#0000FF">%</font>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | > > > > " " | > > > > </font></pre> > > > > </td></tr></table> > > > > </center> > > > > > > > > where you specify colours for both the "text" and the background. This > > > > is to save the image from looking absolutely silly (or partly invisible) > > > > in newer browsers where you can set default colours but not the colours > > > > used in <font> and <td>. > > > > > > I have now implimented what you suggested and FINALLY that llizard > > > llooks the way it should in Lynx (except that it's not centered). > > > > lloks fine in netscape 4 too: > > > > http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/pics/rubbish/llizard.dum.gif > > > > (and here you see what I meant with the table background on coloured > > images trick too) > ___ > _/ |huh? WHAA- AA- TT is that horrifying green > |_____| ---@@^> colour doing there sullying > --- == / _/ > the llook of my page??? > [_____] __>,^ > ejm | | //| | > :D:D:D:D:D > Is that what those idiots at Netscape have done to my beautiful > background colour? Does the default setting take away background colours > set by me? How incredibly irritating and rude. It's Netscape's new "my favourite colours" feature (IE4 has it too, and it's here to stay!). It is very nice to have sometimes since it can turn some unreadable pages into useful pages (this can be especially important to colour-blind people). And why is it rude to *you*? It's *my* eyes that see it that way, not yours... You don't see any colours in Lynx... or do you? http://jota.sm.luth.se:80/~e93-vkn/pics/rubbish/llizard2.dum.gif And how about: http://jota.sm.luth.se:80/~e93-vkn/pics/rubbish/llizard.dum.gif 8-] > And why does the background colour work in the table? > *B*U*G* (or "bad implementation") If you are going to colour your pictures with <font color=...> then it might also be a good idea to put them in tables with <td bgcolor=...> or the image may not come through at all... You won't see any difference in Netscape3 or IE3, or Lynx, but it will make a difference to some newer browsers. > ,---~ > /_,^%--- > /> \ What was the point of > ____/ > choosing colours > (#&*o) > if someone is > '--~ /|^^ just going to cavalierly > ejm98 | \ change them. Sheeeeesh! Good question! :) [ 8< ] > > I knew that actually (you see I haven't been glazing the WHOLE time) but :D:D:D > found it more aesthetically pleasing to leave out the "http://" part. I > can't imagine that people are just dying to go to my site and if they > are, they can certainly copy and paste. People are lazy... -- _ _ __ ___.--'_`. __ __ _ .'_`--.___ __ ( _`.'. - 'o` ) \ \ / /__ _ _ ___ _ _ (_)__ __ _ ( 'o` - .`.'_ ) _\.'_' _.-' \ V / -_) '_/ _ \ ' \| / _/ _` | `-._ `_`./_ ( \`. ) //\` \_/\___|_| \___/_||_|_\__\__,_| '/\\ ( .'/ ) \_`-'`---'\\__, ,__//`---'`-'_/ \` `-\ uggc://jjj.yhqq.yhgu.fr/hfref/ix/ /-' '/ ` _____________________ r93...@fz.yhgu.fr ____________________ ' LIKE MY SIG? GO HERE: http://www.surfplaza.com/figlet/
Thanks, BKN, for your support against half-knowledge, and in one case,
against half-ability to think ;-))
,,
( "> Visit the Gallery of the 'steins!
,(=>)=> http://www3.sympatico.ca/petecasso/
( ^^ 'stein movies, 'stein games and more!
Pete Casso wrote: > > Martin Atkins wrote: > > You, on the other hand, are talking about a way of changing ascii art > to something it can`t usually be by 'cheating' the web browser into > > moving the lines a half space, therefore this is not 'real' asciiart. > > Well, if you declare adding half spaces a "cheat" then by the same > token, you must declare adding monospace fonts to the ascii standard, > and therefore pretty well all ascii art postings on this newsgroup a > "cheat" as well. There is no half spaces in a monospaced font... Allow half spaces means allowing font sizes,italics, bolds and the entire bag op typographic trash... Pete, you really seem to have a problem with the accepted standards on this newsgroup. Start a Microsoft ASCII-art++ newsgroup, copy most of the standards used here and add some to make it completely incompatible. > Vice versa, if you declare adding monospace fonts "real" then by the > same token, you must declare adding half spaces "real" as well. > > You sound a little like the Russian general who was defeated by a much > smaller army led by Napoleon, and then said of Napoleon: "That man does > not know how to conduct battles!" Of course, Napoleon did not follow the > state of the battle art at the time, he advanced the state of the art You sound like Bill Gates... (Forgive me for getting nasty, newsgroup) > More topically speaking, a standard is typically used by its user > community both for its utilitarian value *and* as a platform to innovate > on. In case of the ascii standard, the user community has innovated and > added monospace fonts, colours, half spaces ... There is no halfspace character in the ASCII-table... There is no color in the ASCII-table... Look dude, ASCII is a defined characterset...each char corresponds with a number. 7 bit, so... 128 different chars. > Trying to deny the role of a standard as a foundation for further > development amounts to self-limiting behaviour (such as those driven by > jealousy), either as an individual or as a group, that will eventually > fail to stop progress from happening anyway. Communication is based on standardized codes... If you use your own standard for everything, don't matter how advanced or developed you may be. You cannot communicate, and your knowledge will die with you. > You can't stop evolution! ... Darwinstein > / > ,, > ( "> Visit the Gallery of the 'steins! > ,(=>)=> http://www3.sympatico.ca/petecasso/ > ( ^^ 'stein movies, 'stein games and more! -- _ _ ------------\ ,---. /------------ ---------. `-./ "\.-' .--------- --------\ . /-------- ------`-.| .-'------ ---/ `/"\ \--- `//_-_\\' .----------(.'---',)----------. | mailto:ojo...@mindless.com | | http://ojoshiro.neroc.nl | | --oO(_)Oo-- | | Ojoshiro fuit hic | "-----------------------------"
Veronica Karlsson wrote in message <353...@on.spammer>... >llizard wrote: >> _ _ ASCII-art and Javascript ASCII-animations >> =#-(_X_),^^%--- www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9334/ >> \/<\ \ cq5...@freenet.toronto.on.ca >A little suggestion, if you keep the "http://" part on the URL in your >sig it will become a clickable link in some news programs. And if you >put "mailto:" in front of the email address that too becomes a link >(same with "news:" for newsgroups, e.g. news:alt.ascii-art ). Most of them will allow links in anything that starts with www dot whatever (www.whatever) is a link on mine even <g> And really annoying is that mine takes any @ and makes a link of what's around it (unless it thinks they're illegal email characters), which makes it kind of disconcerting to see ascii art with @'s in them... the areas of blue underline kinda stand out.. <g> >>BKNambo -- Sun...@msn.com World Domination through Trivia! [ chatquiz | onGames | MarsMission ]
Ojoshiro wrote in message <354...@earthling.net>... >Pete Casso wrote: >> Well, if you declare adding half spaces a "cheat" then by the same >> token, you must declare adding monospace fonts to the ascii standard, >> and therefore pretty well all ascii art postings on this newsgroup a >> "cheat" as well. > >There is no half spaces in a monospaced font... >Allow half spaces means allowing font sizes,italics, bolds and the >entire >bag op typographic trash... Ojoshiro--his point there was that there are no monospaced fonts in the ascii standard. All the ascii standard does is define character. It is a /convention/ on this group that we use monospaced font because proportional fonts vary on different computers and in different sizes. Nothing in the ascii standard requires monospaceds--only the ascii-art 'standard'. >> More topically speaking, a standard is typically used by its user >> community both for its utilitarian value *and* as a platform to innovate >> on. In case of the ascii standard, the user community has innovated and >> added monospace fonts, colours, half spaces ... > >There is no halfspace character in the ASCII-table... >There is no color in the ASCII-table... >Look dude, ASCII is a defined characterset...each char corresponds with >a number. 7 bit, so... 128 different chars. Exactly his point.. he says we've 'added' such things. Not to ASCII, but to ASCII-art. There is use of color (on webpages), halfspaces (among some), monospaced fonts (here, but not, say, on AOL), javascript animations (on webpages--Javascript isn't ASCII either). >> Trying to deny the role of a standard as a foundation for further >> development amounts to self-limiting behaviour (such as those driven by >> jealousy), either as an individual or as a group, that will eventually >> fail to stop progress from happening anyway. > >Communication is based on standardized codes... If you use your own >standard for everything, don't matter how advanced or developed you >may be. You cannot communicate, and your knowledge will die with you. Harsh words for pictures made of keyboard characters.. >>BKNambo -- Sun...@msn.com World Domination through Trivia! [ chatquiz | onGames | MarsMission ]
Martin Atkins wrote in message <353...@news.vossnet.net>... >You, on the other hand, are talking about a way of changing ascii art to something it can`t >usually be by 'cheating' the web browser into moving the lines a half space, Is that like 'cheating' the web browser into displaying the text in color? ;) Is that like 'cheating' the web browser into animating the text? :) There are a lot worse abuses of HTML. >therefore >this is not 'real' asciiart. Come now.. that's subjective. >>BKNambo -- Sun...@msn.com World Domination through Trivia! [ chatquiz | onGames | MarsMission ]
In article <353...@on.spammer>, Veronica Karlsson <dre...@on.spammer> wrote: > > llizard wrote: > > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > [ 8< ] > > > And if you want to colour it I suggest you use this: > > > > > > <center> > > > <table><tr><td align=left bgcolor="#FFF6E9"> > > > <pre><font color="#008000"> > > > ,^| > > > ===<font color="#0000FF">%</font>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | > > > " " | > > > </font></pre> > > > </td></tr></table> > > > </center> > > > > > > where you specify colours for both the "text" and the background. This > > > is to save the image from looking absolutely silly (or partly invisible) > > > in newer browsers where you can set default colours but not the colours > > > used in <font> and <td>. > [ 8< ] > > I have now implimented what you suggested and FINALLY that llizard > > llooks the way it should in Lynx (except that it's not centered). > > lloks fine in netscape 4 too: > > http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/pics/rubbish/llizard.dum.gif > > (and here you see what I meant with the table background on coloured > images trick too) ___ _/ |huh? WHAA- AA- TT is that horrifying green |_____| ---@@^> colour doing there sullying --- == / _/ > the llook of my page??? [_____] __>,^ ejm | | //| | Is that what those idiots at Netscape have done to my beautiful background colour? Does the default setting take away background colours set by me? How incredibly irritating and rude. And why does the background colour work in the table? ,---~ /_,^%--- /> \ What was the point of ____/ > choosing colours (#&*o) > if someone is '--~ /|^^ just going to cavalierly ejm98 | \ change them. Sheeeeesh! > [ 8< ] > > =#-(_X_),^^%--- www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9334/ > [ 8< ] > > A little suggestion, if you keep the "http://" part on the URL in your > sig it will become a clickable link in some news programs. And if you > put "mailto:" in front of the email address that too becomes a link > (same with "news:" for newsgroups, e.g. news:alt.ascii-art ). I knew that actually (you see I haven't been glazing the WHOLE time) but found it more aesthetically pleasing to leave out the "http://" part. I can't imagine that people are just dying to go to my site and if they are, they can certainly copy and paste. But just this once, I'll do as you say. NOTE: If you hit the reply button, add an "e" to the "freent"; its absense is to stop the torment of automatic mailers. -- ha llizard aka ejm cq5...@freenet.toronto.on.ca ^^^^%--- ha http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/9334/ " \ ha ASCII-art and Javascript ASCII-animations
Pete Casso <pet...@sympatico.ca> wrote: >Thanks, BKN, for your support against half-knowledge, and in one case, >against half-ability to think ;-)) > ,, > ( "> Visit the Gallery of the 'steins! > ,(=>)=> http://www3.sympatico.ca/petecasso/ >( ^^ 'stein movies, 'stein games and more! HTML-art is not Ascii-art. Why is it being continually discussed in these newsgroups ? Bye,
llizard <cq5...@freent.toronto.on.ca> wrote: >In article <353...@on.spammer>, Veronica Karlsson ><dre...@on.spammer> wrote: >> >> llizard wrote: >> > Veronica Karlsson wrote: [...big snip...] >I knew that actually (you see I haven't been glazing the WHOLE time) but >found it more aesthetically pleasing to leave out the "http://" part. I >can't imagine that people are just dying to go to my site and if they >are, they can certainly copy and paste. >But just this once, I'll do as you say. Excuse me, but this has gone on long enough. Why are we having these interminable postings about how to HTML in alt.ascii-art ? Ascii-art is not HTML. Bye,
Veronica Karlsson <dre...@on.spammer> wrote: >llizard wrote: >> Veronica Karlsson wrote: >> > llizard wrote: >> > > Veronica Karlsson wrote: [...big snip...] >> found it more aesthetically pleasing to leave out the "http://" part. I >> can't imagine that people are just dying to go to my site and if they >> are, they can certainly copy and paste. >People are lazy... Yeah, and people are also annoying. Why are we having all this HTML discussion stuff in alt.ascii-art ? HTML is not Ascii Art but by continually discussing it here it encourages others to think that it is Ascii Art. Bah ! Harumph ! Bye,
Colin Douthwaite wrote: [ 8< ] > >People are lazy... > > Yeah, and people are also annoying. > Yes :) > Why are we having all this HTML discussion stuff in alt.ascii-art ? Because some of us have homepages where we would like to use html do display ascii art. To do this in a way that works for everybody is easy, place the whole thing in <pre></pre>, replace all '&' characters with '&', then replace all '<' characters with '<'. Some people also like to replace all '>' with '>' for symmetry. It is when people want to do more than this by centering, colouring, animating etc that it gets complicated. We already have alt.ascii-art.animation where discussions about animating ascii art belongs. Maybe we need a special group for using ascii art in html? I don't think this kind of discussion would be very welcome in the html groups that I know of - I get the impression that most of the people there regard ascii art as either "obsolete" or "an obstruction of accessibility"... But I suppose that if we all got our butts over to alt.html and invaded the place they couldn't exactly kick us out... (but I doubt we'd find each other in the mess that that group is. Well, I'm there already anyway...) > HTML is not Ascii Art but by continually discussing it here it encourages > others to think that it is Ascii Art. Bah ! Harumph ! > Html source is ascii (or very close to it anyway). Html as seen in the browser is not ascii. Ascii *art* presented with html, except a few cases that *depend* on colouring, can easily be "converted back" to "pure" ascii with a simple copy-and-paste. -- _ _ __ ___.--'_`. __ __ _ .'_`--.___ __ ( _`.'. - 'o` ) \ \ / /__ _ _ ___ _ _ (_)__ __ _ ( 'o` - .`.'_ ) _\.'_' _.-' \ V / -_) '_/ _ \ ' \| / _/ _` | `-._ `_`./_ ( \`. ) //\` \_/\___|_| \___/_||_|_\__\__,_| '/\\ ( .'/ ) \_`-'`---'\\__, ,__//`---'`-'_/ \` `-\ uggc://jjj.yhqq.yhgu.fr/hfref/ix/ /-' '/ ` _____________________ r93...@fz.yhgu.fr ____________________ ' LIKE MY SIG? GO HERE: http://www.surfplaza.com/figlet/
Veronica Karlsson wrote in message <354...@on.spammer>... >I get the impression that most of the people >there regard ascii art as either "obsolete" or "an obstruction of >accessibility"... Which is why they recommend showing it in separate text files rather than inline. My page uses images of it (I think--haven't touched the thing in ages), and text behind for browsers that don't support images, like NEtscape and Lynx. (I also put linx in for textonly browsers too, so they can see in txt form) >> HTML is not Ascii Art but by continually discussing it here it encourages >> others to think that it is Ascii Art. Bah ! Harumph ! >> > >Html source is ascii (or very close to it anyway). HTML should ALWAYS be in ascii. Any extended characters are supposed to be represented through character elements like ÿ (named entities) or &7855; (unicode entities) although foreign alphabet sets usually ignore this and stick to their own native encodings. >>BKNambo -- Sun...@msn.com World Domination through Trivia! [ chatquiz | onGames | MarsMission ]
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Brock Kevin Nambo <new...@earthling.net> wrote: >Veronica Karlsson wrote in message <354...@on.spammer>... >>I get the impression that most of the people >>there regard ascii art as either "obsolete" or "an obstruction of >>accessibility"... >Which is why they recommend showing it in separate text files rather than >inline. My page uses images of it (I think--haven't touched the thing in >ages), and text behind for browsers that don't support images, like NEtscape >and Lynx. (I also put linx in for textonly browsers too, so they can see in >txt form) >>> HTML is not Ascii Art but by continually discussing it here it encourages >>> others to think that it is Ascii Art. Bah ! Harumph ! >>> >> >>Html source is ascii (or very close to it anyway). >HTML should ALWAYS be in ascii. Any extended characters are supposed to be >represented through character elements like ÿ (named entities) or >&7855; (unicode entities) although foreign alphabet sets usually ignore this >and stick to their own native encodings. Excuse me, HTML is _NOT_ Ascii Art. This is an Ascii Art newsgroup. Bye,
> Excuse me, HTML is _NOT_ Ascii Art. This is an Ascii Art newsgroup.
By the same token, ascii art is not ascii either because of the
additions to the ascii standard, find a new name for the newsgroup.
01WW5WWW10WWWW5WWW20WWWW5WWW30WWWW5WWW40WWWW5WWW50WWWW5WWW60WWWW5WWW70
02 02
03 Frogstein and Birdstein - The Victory March 03
04 by Pete Casso 970718 Revision 980425 04
05 05
06 o 06
07 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/ 07
08 ~ ~ ~ Long Live the htmlgangsteins! ~ ~ ~/ 08
09 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/ 09
10 / 10
11 ,oo ,oo ,oo ,oo ,oo / 11
12 oo -) ,oo -) ,oo -) ,oo -) ,oo -) _==_ / 12
13 -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ( "> / 13
14 " ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" (> )>/ 14
15 ( -)" ( -)" ( -)" ( -)" ^^ 15
16 " " " " " " " " 16
17WW5WWW10WWWW5WWW20WWWW5WWW30WWWW5WWW40WWWW5WWW50WWWW5WWW60WWWW5WWW70
Colin Douthwaite wrote in message <893...@mnementh.southern.co.nz>... >Brock Kevin Nambo <new...@earthling.net> wrote: >>Veronica Karlsson wrote in message <354...@on.spammer>... >>>> HTML is not Ascii Art but by continually discussing it here it encourages >>>> others to think that it is Ascii Art. Bah ! Harumph ! >>>> >>> >>>Html source is ascii (or very close to it anyway). > >>HTML should ALWAYS be in ascii. Any extended characters are supposed to be >>represented through character elements like ÿ (named entities) or >>&7855; (unicode entities) although foreign alphabet sets usually ignore this >>and stick to their own native encodings. > >Excuse me, HTML is _NOT_ Ascii Art. This is an Ascii Art newsgroup. HTML is not ascii art? This one by VK was posted only a week or two ago and you forgot already!? pay attention man! <G> <center><table cellpadding = "20" border = "20" width = "50%"> <tr><td bgcolor = "#FF00FF"><table cellpadding = "20"> <tr> <td bgcolor = "#000000"> <font color = "#FFFFFF"> <font size = "6"><font color = "#FFFF00" > WHAT? </font> </font> <p> Are <b>you</b><i> saying </i> that <b>you </b> have <i> something </i><font size = "+1" > <font color = "#ffff99"> <b> against </b> </font><font size "+1" > <font color = "#FF3333">H</font><font color = "#99FF99">T </font><font color = "#9999FF">M </font><font color = "#FFFF99">L </font><b> ??? </b> </font></font> <p><blink> <font aaa aaa color="#FF3333">Whatever for? </font > </blink> <p> It is<i> such</i>a <font color = "#FF00FF" > <blink aaa aaa aa> nice</b></blink> <i>language </i> and <aa aaa aa> gives you such <a> <font color =#00FFFF aaa aaa aa> fantastic</font aa> <font color =#FF00FF aaa aaa aa> creative <blink aa> freedom </blink> </font><b>! </b><p> <font aaa aaa color = #FF55FF> <font size ="6">So what <aa aa> </font > </font> If not <i><b><font aaa aaa color = #999999 aaa aa> everybody <aa aaa aa> </font > </b> </i> can <a> read it?<p> If <aa aa> those <b> <i>losers <a> </i> </b> are too <i> <a> <font color =CCCC00> <a> mean </font> <aa aa> </i>to<i> buy </i> some<blink a> <a><b> <font aaa aaa color = "00FFFF"> decent </font></b> </blink><i> equipment </i> then that is <b><font color = "#9999FF"> their </font> </b> <i> problem, </i>not <blink>mine! </blink><p> They can always <b> <font color = FF3333 >save</font> </b>the<font size= "+1"> <blink> <i> source code </i></blink> </font> to a <b>file</b> and <i>open</i> it in <i> <b> <font color = "00ff00"> Netscape!</font></b></i><b><font color = "#ffff99">That </font></b> isn't so<i> <font color = "#ff3333">difficult! </font></i></td></tr></table> </td> </tr></table> >>BKNambo -- Sun...@msn.com World Domination through Trivia! [ chatquiz | onGames | MarsMission ]
> HTML is not ascii art? This one by VK was posted only a week or two > ago and you forgot already!? pay attention man! <G> Good, good, man! Just throw things back at the asciigangsteins! In the past, Colinstein has _never_ said anything when asciigangsteins post html articles, but if somebody else does it, he post his garbage anti-html tirades! And now watch either him or Veronicastein doing some hairsplitting on what is and what is not kosher html on this newsgroup! 01WW5WWW10WWWW5WWW20WWWW5WWW30WWWW5WWW40WWWW5WWW50WWWW5WWW60WWWW5WWW70 02 02 03 Frogstein and Birdstein - The Victory March 03 04 by Pete Casso 970718 Revision 980425 04 05 05 06 o 06 07 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/ 07 08 ~ ~ ~ Long Live the htmlgangsteins! ~ ~ ~/ 08 09 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/ 09 10 / 10 11 ,oo ,oo ,oo ,oo ,oo / 11 12 oo -) ,oo -) ,oo -) ,oo -) ,oo -) _==_ / 12 13 -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ( "> / 13 14 " ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" (> )>/ 14 15 ( -)" ( -)" ( -)" ( -)" ^^ 15 16 " " " " " " " " 16 17WW5WWW10WWWW5WWW20WWWW5WWW30WWWW5WWW40WWWW5WWW50WWWW5WWW60WWWW5WWW70
01WW5WWW10WWWW5WWW20WWWW5WWW30WWWW5WWW40WWWW5WWW5052 02 02 03 Frogstein and Birdstein - The New Gang 03 04 by Pete Casso 980425 Revision 980426 04 05 05 06 Colinstein, what's up? 06 07 / 07 08 / I changed gangs! 08 09 / I joined the htmlgangsteins! 09 10 _==_ / 10 11 ( "> oo. 11 12 (> )> (- ) 12 13 ^^ " " 13 14 14 15 Huh? Isn't that the wrong gang? 15 16 / 16 17 / Well, no! I like the html 17 18 / of the asciigangsteins! 18 19 _==_ / 19 20 ( "> oo. 20 21 (> )> (- ) 21 22 ^^ " " 22 23 23 24WW5WWW10WWWW5W http://www3.sympatico.ca/petecasso/
> Yeah, and people are also annoying.
Yeah, I find the asciigangsteins particularly annoying.
The html, plonking, copyright, and what have you "issues" are really
innocuous (or even ludicrous) ripples that appear on the surface and
that the asciigangsteins use as pretexts.
Not so innocuous are the undercurrents below the surface, mostly powered
by Not Invented Here kind of jealousy. And in case of Veronicastein,
things are aggravated by her boredom.
As long as the asciigangsteins only understand the "throwing back"
language, then there will be not only my wars, but also the Tony Relyea,
the Kangaroo and the Miss Kitty wars, and there will be many more wars
to come.
It would be good if the asciigangsteins mature and not behave like seven
year old brats jealous of other kids' toys.
,,
( "> Visit the Gallery of the 'steins!
,(=>)=> http://www3.sympatico.ca/petecasso/
( ^^ 'stein movies, 'stein games and more!
Brock Kevin Nambo (new...@earthling.net) wrote:
: HTML should ALWAYS be in ascii. Any extended characters are supposed to be
: represented through character elements like ÿ (named entities) or
: &7855; (unicode entities) although foreign alphabet sets usually ignore this
: and stick to their own native encodings.
I'm getting dangerously close to off-topic, but I think this still may
have some relevance to ascii (and especially not-quite-ascii) art.
From the HTML 4.0 specification:
Any convenient encoding that covers most of the characters the author
will employ can be used, provided it is correctly labeled (as explained
below). Occasional characters that fall outside this encoding may still
be entered, in the form of numeric character references which always
refer to the document character set, not the encoding.
Conforming user agents must correctly map to Unicode all characters in
any character encodings ("charsets") that they recognize (or they must
behave as if they did). Names for characters encodings are generally
case insensitive.
It goes on to say that if no character encoding is provided on the
Content-Type line, user agents should assume ISO-8859-1 for compatibility
with older servers. So HTML source doen't have to be ASCII, and in fact
it may be UTF-16 in which case the only entities you'll ever need to use
are & and < (ok, maybe " too)
Ok, no followups to a.a-a unless they're relevant to ascii art, please.
And please don't step on my fingers, or I'll fall off the topic of this
newsgroup. ;-)
I think this ascii->HTML issue is best resolved by adding it to the FAQ.
I'll be posting my suggestion for an answer sometime soon.
--
. _, .. j u s t. h o w l.i n g i n .t h e n.i g h t .. ._, .
, )'' . /\_ . ' ,/\ . , ``( ,
_\__/ |__.'\._______,--;_'_`-.___,.______,/_,_`.__,-.__'__,/`-._,_| \____
,_f_)\. Ilmari Karonen ilt...@sci.fi http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/ /(_|_,.
Ojoshiro wrote in message <354484D4.4A0C@_NOSPAM_mindless.com>... >Here you got your ASCII-Art Bruce... >And don't nag, it's all ASCII-Chars. Yeah, but it's very bad HTML. ick! ><HTML> > <HEAD> > <TITLE>Catspaw</TITLE> > </HEAD> > > <BODY> > <TABLE CellSpacing="0" CellPadding="0" Border="0"> > <TR> > <TD ColSpan="3" Align="center" VAlign="top"><FONT >Face="Helvetica" Size="3"><B>@</B></FONT><FONT Face="Helvetica" >Size="7">@</FONT><FONT Face="Helvetica" Size="3"><B>@</B></FONT></TD> > </TR> > <TR> > <TD ColSpan="3" Align="center" VAlign="top"><FONT >Face="Helvetica" Size="4"><B>@</B></FONT> <FONT Face="Helvetica" >Size="4"><B>@</B></FONT></TD> > </TR> > </TABLE> > </BODY> ></HTML> Or something. >>BKNambo -- Sun...@msn.com World Domination through Trivia! [ chatquiz | onGames | MarsMission ]
.----- On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:52:22, joAn posted:
|***
'------------------------
I think a read of the FAQ is in order (URL in my sig)
You posted extended characters, which isn`t the nicest thing to do considering that
it can break some peoples newsreaders.
.------------------------------------------------------------------------.
:_ _ _ _ :
|_|_ _|_| _ _ _ _ _ _ _|_|_ _ |_| _ _ _ :
|_|_|_|_|_| _|_|_|_| |_|_|_|_| |_|_|_|_| _ |_|_|_|_ :
|_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_|_| |_| |_| |_| | ||||| .-----------.
|_| |_| |_|_ _|_| |_| |_|_ _ |_| |_| | | o o ||mart.atkins|
|_| _ _ |_| |_|_|_| |_| _ |_|_| |_| |_| | | > || @ |
: _|_|_|_ _|_|_ _ |_| _ |_| _ _ _ _ _ _ | \_/ ||bigfoot.com|
:|_|_ _|_| |_|_|_|_| |_|_|_| _ |_|_|_|_ _|_|_|_| \___/ '-----------'
:|_|_|_|_| |_| |_|_|_ |_| |_| |_| |_|_|_ _ __| |__ :
:|_| |_| |_|_ _ |_| |_|_ |_| |_| |_| _ _|_| / \_/ \ :
:|_| |_| |_|_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_|_|_| | | | | :
: http://vibes.vossnet.co.uk/i/ighaig/ | |MGA| | :
: http://voices.vossnet.co.uk/a/atkins/ascii.htm | | | | :
'------------------------------------------------------------------------'
If you are new to the newsgroup, please read our FAQ list - posted weekly
and on the web at http://vibes.vossnet.co.uk/i/ighaig/ascfaq.htm
Pete Casso wrote: > > > Excuse me, HTML is _NOT_ Ascii Art. This is an Ascii Art newsgroup. > > By the same token, ascii art is not ascii either because of the > additions to the ascii standard, find a new name for the newsgroup. > > 01WW5WWW10WWWW5WWW20WWWW5WWW30WWWW5WWW40WWWW5WWW50WWWW5WWW60WWWW5WWW70 > 02 02 > 03 Frogstein and Birdstein - The Victory March 03 > 04 by Pete Casso 970718 Revision 980425 04 > 05 05 > 06 o 06 > 07 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/ 07 > 08 ~ ~ ~ Long Live the htmlgangsteins! ~ ~ ~/ 08 > 09 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/ 09 > 10 / 10 > 11 ,oo ,oo ,oo ,oo ,oo / 11 > 12 oo -) ,oo -) ,oo -) ,oo -) ,oo -) _==_ / 12 > 13 -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ( "> / 13 > 14 " ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" (> )>/ 14 > 15 ( -)" ( -)" ( -)" ( -)" ^^ 15 > 16 " " " " " " " " 16 > 17WW5WWW10WWWW5WWW20WWWW5WWW30WWWW5WWW40WWWW5WWW50WWWW5WWW60WWWW5WWW70 Here you got your ASCII-Art Bruce... And don't nag, it's all ASCII-Chars. <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Catspaw</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <TABLE CellSpacing="0" CellPadding="0" Border="0"> <TR> <TD ColSpan="3" Align="center" VAlign="top"><FONT Face="Helvetica" Size="3"><B>@</B></FONT><FONT Face="Helvetica" Size="7">@</FONT><FONT Face="Helvetica" Size="3"><B>@</B></FONT></TD> </TR> <TR> <TD ColSpan="3" Align="center" VAlign="top"><FONT Face="Helvetica" Size="4"><B>@</B></FONT> <FONT Face="Helvetica" Size="4"><B>@</B></FONT></TD> </TR> </TABLE> </BODY> </HTML> -- _ _ ------------\ ,---. /------------ ---------. `-./ "\.-' .--------- --------\ . /-------- ------`-.| .-'------ ---/ `/"\ \--- `//_-_\\' .----------(.'---',)----------. | mailto:ojo...@mindless.com | | http://ojoshiro.neroc.nl | | --oO(_)Oo-- | | Ojoshiro fuit hic | "-----------------------------"
>Excuse me, HTML is _NOT_ Ascii Art. This is an Ascii Art newsgroup. > HTML is ascii no one can debate that. It may not be ascii art. However, for this newsgroup I find the topic of how to display ascii art relevant. Especially as I have just been doing that very thing. None of the books I have been learning about HTML in have that kind of information. The best source for that online is not the HTML groups either. Its right here with other artists and website makers who have the experience and know what Im talking about when I ask questions. I have been looking at all the posts in this debate, the ones I havent missed. I think this is the first all out 'flame' we have had in this group in the nearly two years I have been poking around here. Really, its kind of interesting to see some artistic temperament :) Laura, who still thinks this is the most peaceful newsgroup on the Net. S=- .- -. -=S She...@globalserve.net Freelance Writer H /( )\ H How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. E | -^^- | E --Annie Dillard \_ `' _/ Writers, Wiccans and Web Browsers: S \ ) S http://members.xoom.com/ldb/fireone.htm H )/ H InkSplatters archives: E=- (' -=E http://members.xoom.com/ldb/InkSplatters.htm Rik Downing
> Yeah, but it's very bad HTML. ick!
Perhaps. But the idea(s) behind it may be a bit better.
Just keep tidying up the code and keep extracting the elements of the
technique(s), i.e. what kind of elementary visual effect(s) correspond
to what element of the technique(s). And find ways for systematically
composing pics based on that kind of homework. Perhaps that possible
here.
,,
( "> Visit the Gallery of the 'steins!
,(=>)=> http://www3.sympatico.ca/petecasso/
( ^^ 'stein movies, 'stein games and more!
SheDragon wrote: > > >Excuse me, HTML is _NOT_ Ascii Art. This is an Ascii Art newsgroup. > > > > HTML is ascii no one can debate that. It may not be ascii art. > However, for this newsgroup I find the topic of how to display ascii > art relevant. Especially as I have just been doing that very thing. > None of the books I have been learning about HTML in have that kind of > information. The best source for that online is not the HTML groups > either. Its right here with other artists and website makers who have > the experience and know what Im talking about when I ask questions. > > I have been looking at all the posts in this debate, the ones I havent > missed. I think this is the first all out 'flame' we have had in this > group in the nearly two years I have been poking around here. Really, > its kind of interesting to see some artistic temperament :) > > Laura, who still thinks this is the most peaceful newsgroup on the > Net. Well, It's ASCII...I think I'm gonna post some of my stories...Plain text, so ASCII aswell =) And you can al argue about the 'art' part... -- _ _ ------------\ ,---. /------------ ---------. `-./ "\.-' .--------- --------\ . /-------- ------`-.| .-'------ ---/ `/"\ \--- `//_-_\\' .----------(.'---',)----------. | mailto:ojo...@mindless.com | | http://ojoshiro.neroc.nl | | --oO(_)Oo-- | | Ojoshiro fuit hic | "-----------------------------"
On 25 Apr 1998 19:04:12 GMT, Colin Douthwaite <cfb...@southern.co.nz> wrote: %Veronica Karlsson <dre...@on.spammer> wrote: %>llizard wrote: %>> Veronica Karlsson wrote: %>> > llizard wrote: %>> > > Veronica Karlsson wrote: % %[...big snip...] % %>> found it more aesthetically pleasing to leave out the "http://" part. I %>> can't imagine that people are just dying to go to my site and if they %>> are, they can certainly copy and paste. % %>People are lazy... % %Yeah, and people are also annoying. % %Why are we having all this HTML discussion stuff in alt.ascii-art ? %HTML is not Ascii Art but by continually discussing it here it encourages %others to think that it is Ascii Art. Bah ! Harumph ! % %Bye, % Colin, It appeared to me that people were discussing most appropriate methods to display ASCII art on a webpage. Sounds like a pretty valid discussion for alt.ascii-art to me. -r- -- enq...@npvq.bet RaD Man % ACiD Productions Founder % Artpacks Archive Founder Words to live by: " It's better to be controversial for the right reasons, than to be popular for the wrong reasons. "
On 26 Apr 1998 18:43:33 GMT, Colin Douthwaite <cfb...@southern.co.nz> wrote: %Brock Kevin Nambo <new...@earthling.net> wrote: %>Veronica Karlsson wrote in message <354...@on.spammer>... %>>I get the impression that most of the people %>>there regard ascii art as either "obsolete" or "an obstruction of %>>accessibility"... % %>Which is why they recommend showing it in separate text files rather than %>inline. My page uses images of it (I think--haven't touched the thing in %>ages), and text behind for browsers that don't support images, like NEtscape %>and Lynx. (I also put linx in for textonly browsers too, so they can see in %>txt form) % %>>> HTML is not Ascii Art but by continually discussing it here it encourages %>>> others to think that it is Ascii Art. Bah ! Harumph ! %>>> %>> %>>Html source is ascii (or very close to it anyway). % %>HTML should ALWAYS be in ascii. Any extended characters are supposed to be %>represented through character elements like ÿ (named entities) or %>&7855; (unicode entities) although foreign alphabet sets usually ignore this %>and stick to their own native encodings. % %Excuse me, HTML is _NOT_ Ascii Art. This is an Ascii Art newsgroup. Colin, When did you become dictator or moderator of alt.ascii-art? That's what I thought. -r- -- enq...@npvq.bet RaD Man % ACiD Productions Founder % Artpacks Archive Founder Words to live by: " It's better to be controversial for the right reasons, than to be popular for the wrong reasons. "
In Message-ID: <354...@sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 Pete Casso <pet...@sympatico.ca> wrote: > In the past, Colinstein has _never_ said anything when > asciigangsteins post html articles, but if somebody else does it, > he post his garbage anti-html tirades! Hmm...nothing personal. I had been waiting patiently for ages for the htmlgangsteins to run out of steam before my own head of steam blew it's whistle. o o o TOOT TOOT o o O O ,_____ ____ O | PMD \_|[]|_'__Y |_______|__|_|__|} ===================oo--oo==oo--OOO\\==================== One always hopes that goodsense and asciiartsteins will ultimately prevail ? Bye,
In article <894...@mnementh.southern.co.nz>, Colin Douthwaite <cfb...@southern.co.nz> wrote: >I had been waiting patiently for ages for the htmlgangsteins to run >out of steam before my own head of steam blew it's whistle. Well, Colinstein, you have done more than just waiting patiently. You posted your html objections, debated them with the htmlgangsteins, and were eventually forced to give up on _all_ of your html objections. You then even suggested to put html in the FAQ, which has already been done by the time you suggested that. >One always hopes that goodsense and asciiartsteins will ultimately >prevail ? Yes, hopefully. Theoretically speaking, there should be no more harassment because of html articles. Practically speaking, well we will see ... from the way the debate had been going in the various threads, I did get the impression that you will leave html posters alone. In any case, and for now at least, the htmlgangsteins have won the battle against being harassed in this newsgroup! 01WW5WWW10WWWW5WWW20WWWW5WWW30WWWW5WWW40WWWW5WWW50WWWW5WWW60WWWW5WWW70 02 02 03 Frogstein and Birdstein - The Victory March 03 04 by Pete Casso 970718 Revision 980425 04 05 05 06 o 06 07 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/ 07 08 ~ ~ ~ Long Live the htmlgangsteins! ~ ~ ~/ 08 09 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/ 09 10 / 10 11 ,oo ,oo ,oo ,oo ,oo / 11 12 oo -) ,oo -) ,oo -) ,oo -) ,oo -) _==_ / 12 13 -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ( "> / 13 14 " ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" ,oo -)" (> )>/ 14 15 ( -)" ( -)" ( -)" ( -)" ^^ 15 16 " " " " " " " " 16 17 17 18WW5WWW10WWW Visit the 'steins at http://www3.sympatico.ca/petecasso/
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